3 ms·
Corruption is a provable violation of ethics which is measurable. In so many of these police related threads on HN lately people make absurd claims and then ar
by austincheney 6y ago
Corruption is a provable violation of ethics which is measurable.
In so many of these police related threads on HN lately people make absurd claims and then are upset when asked about data or objectivity, which suggests people are looking to complain about something and don’t want their complaint validated with data, which is strange.
- psychometry 6y agoConsidering we're not allowed to see officer disciplinary records, even though they work for us (the taxpayer), it's impossible to get the data you want.
- austincheney 6y agoYou can subpoena for that in the public interest otherwise that is an employer related privacy violation of an employee.
- uoaei 6y agoWhat ethics? And how can you prove anything if cops always defend their own? In an ideal world where we have an oracle telling us which cops are good and which are bad your comment makes sense. But the nature of corruption is to obfuscate its dealings. You can't just say "well we need independent oversight" then because there are so many institutional pivot points where cops can hide their abhorrent behavior before it gets to see the light of day.
- austincheney 6y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics In practical application ethics violations are knowable breaking of rules or demonstrable malicious intentions.
- uoaei 6y agoYou have an ultra-simplified view of what ethics can be and how it can be employed. This is evidenced in how you think "ethics" can be defined by a wikipedia page. The concept of ethics is very much different from its numerous instantiations.
- austincheney 6y agoThen please provide a better definition.
- justin66 6y ago> Corruption is a provable violation of ethics which is measurable. Police do everything they can to keep ethics violations from being measured. That is what the story is about. In light of that, your objection to psychometry's comment calling for oversight is quite absurd.
- austincheney 6y agoI am absolutely not objecting to oversight. I am not sure how you came to that. I am advocating for the opposite, for increased measurable data so that people don’t have to invent their own narratives.
- justin66 6y ago> invent their own narratives Your comments in this thread are recursively ridiculous and I'm not sure how far I want to unwind them, but people are "inventing their own narratives" (this is an astonishingly bad way of characterizing the problem here) in preference to siting hard numbers because the police are not holding themselves accountable, a phenomenon that includes the suppression of the hard data on how many abuses there are.
- austincheney 6y agoThen advocate for better data. You either want accountability or you just want to have something to complain about.
- justin66 6y agoLiterally every person who is advocating for greater police accountability is, by definition, advocating for better data. I don't think there's an argument here about that. The point of disagreement would seem to be, most people don't believe being unable to fully quantify the corruption of the police means it does not exist.
- 6y ago
- fzeroracer 6y agoHere you go [1]. This DB contains multiple provable violation of ethics in multiple measurable and easily digestible forms such as graphs and stats. I assume you will agree that this is close to objectivity and therefore police are indeed corrupt? [1] https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality
- austincheney 6y agoYes, qualified data is essential because the goal is accountability, but that still doesn’t answer my original question.
- fzeroracer 6y agoYour original question was 'where's the data'. I provided the data. How does that not answer it?
- austincheney 6y agoOriginal question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23616331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23616331
- fzeroracer 6y agoYes, and I provided you evidence. You claimed in an earlier post > In so many of these police related threads on HN lately people make absurd claims and then are upset when asked about data or objectivity And I provided you exactly what you wanted. Yet you seem to be dismissing said evidence out of...? Your feelings?