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I’m surprised no localities have rolled out an ADS[1] yet to deal with crowds. These systems always gave me an ominous feeling, and I don’t want to be around wh

I’m surprised no localities have rolled out an ADS[1] yet to deal with crowds. These systems always gave me an ominous feeling, and I don’t want to be around when they start doing trial runs on Americans. https://youtu.be/kzG4oEutPbA https://youtu.be/kzG4oEutPbA

dashundchen 6y ago
They have (also known as an "LRAD") https://genasys.com/video/buffalo-ny-pd-acquire-lrad-500x-for-crowd-communications/ https://genasys.com/video/buffalo-ny-pd-acquire-lrad-500x-fo... I know it was deployed in the past month Buffalo, Portland, Seattle, New York and Washington DC at least, and I'm sure many more police departments have used it. These should be banned along with tear gas, rubber bullets and flash grenades. The indiscriminate nature and damage these weapons cause is the definition of excessive force. EDIT: Sorry, was mistaken. ADS is not the same as LRAD - though neither should be in the hands of local police departments.
- phonypc 6y ago
  Different systems. LRAD is acoustic, ADS is radio frequency heating.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Fortunately not the same devices. The ADS gives people the sensation their skin is burning. From wikipedia: > The ADS works by firing a high-powered (100 kW output power) beam of 95 GHz waves at a target, which corresponds to a wavelength of 3.2 mm. The ADS millimeter wave energy works on a similar principle as a microwave oven, exciting the water and fat molecules in the skin, and instantly heating them via dielectric heating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
  - klyrs 6y ago
    > The ADS gives people the sensation their skin is burning. Waterboarding gives people the sensation of drowning. This is an instrument of torture.
    - phonypc 6y ago
      I think using the word "sensation" is even downplaying things. Their skin is burning. People are drowning. It just (usually) stops before permanent injury or death.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
Is that a microwave cannon? What happens if people don't move?
- kawfey 6y ago
  Their skin burns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn
  - ed25519FUUU 6y ago
    Hopefully they're not wearing any metal earrings, piercings, etc that are exposed to the waves.
    - minikites 6y ago
      To cops that's a feature, not a bug.
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    That's horrifying. And it yet again feels irresponsible to be selling this as a somehow safe method of crowd dispersal when in reality it's just a low power long range flamethrower.
- ArtDev 6y ago
  Or if they are trapped their skin gets literally cooked.
kawfey 6y ago
Compared to less-than-lethal means like rubber bullets, beanbags, and tasers, acute RF exposure at reasonable distances and safety margins causes quite a bit less physical damage while making those exposed very, very uncomfortable. However, the video demonstration shows testing on volunteers, with the ADS at a great distance, following strict safety protocols. In the wrong hands, things could quickly change. I don't want to imagine what 100kW of directed 95GHz RF can do to skin at a distance of tens of meters on trapped or immobilized targets for long exposure durations. It could not only be lethal, but an instrument of torture.
ArtDev 6y ago
The ADS is way worse than anything else because its potential for abuse. Police appear to abuse any tool they are given. They shoot protestors directly with tear gas grenades, aim for the face with rubber bullets, and pepper spray people in the face that are already prone and in handcuffs. From the wikipedia page on the ADS: "..may lead those who use them to become "trigger-happy", especially in dealing with peaceful protesters. Others have focused on concerns that weapons whose operative principle is that of inflicting pain (though "non-lethal") might be useful for such purposes as torture, as they leave no evidence of use, but undoubtedly have the capacity to inflict horrific pain on a restrained subject. According to Wired, the ADS has been rejected for fielding in Iraq due to Pentagon fears that it would be regarded as an instrument of torture.[54]"

dashundchen 6y ago

They have (also known as an "LRAD") https://genasys.com/video/buffalo-ny-pd-acquire-lrad-500x-for-crowd-communications/ https://genasys.com/video/buffalo-ny-pd-acquire-lrad-500x-fo... I know it was deployed in the past month Buffalo, Portland, Seattle, New York and Washington DC at least, and I'm sure many more police departments have used it. These should be banned along with tear gas, rubber bullets and flash grenades. The indiscriminate nature and damage these weapons cause is the definition of excessive force. EDIT: Sorry, was mistaken. ADS is not the same as LRAD - though neither should be in the hands of local police departments.

phonypc 6y ago
Different systems. LRAD is acoustic, ADS is radio frequency heating.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Fortunately not the same devices. The ADS gives people the sensation their skin is burning. From wikipedia: > The ADS works by firing a high-powered (100 kW output power) beam of 95 GHz waves at a target, which corresponds to a wavelength of 3.2 mm. The ADS millimeter wave energy works on a similar principle as a microwave oven, exciting the water and fat molecules in the skin, and instantly heating them via dielectric heating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
- klyrs 6y ago
  > The ADS gives people the sensation their skin is burning. Waterboarding gives people the sensation of drowning. This is an instrument of torture.
  - phonypc 6y ago
    I think using the word "sensation" is even downplaying things. Their skin is burning. People are drowning. It just (usually) stops before permanent injury or death.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

Is that a microwave cannon? What happens if people don't move?

kawfey 6y ago
Their skin burns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Hopefully they're not wearing any metal earrings, piercings, etc that are exposed to the waves.
  - minikites 6y ago
    To cops that's a feature, not a bug.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  That's horrifying. And it yet again feels irresponsible to be selling this as a somehow safe method of crowd dispersal when in reality it's just a low power long range flamethrower.
ArtDev 6y ago
Or if they are trapped their skin gets literally cooked.

kawfey 6y ago

Compared to less-than-lethal means like rubber bullets, beanbags, and tasers, acute RF exposure at reasonable distances and safety margins causes quite a bit less physical damage while making those exposed very, very uncomfortable. However, the video demonstration shows testing on volunteers, with the ADS at a great distance, following strict safety protocols. In the wrong hands, things could quickly change. I don't want to imagine what 100kW of directed 95GHz RF can do to skin at a distance of tens of meters on trapped or immobilized targets for long exposure durations. It could not only be lethal, but an instrument of torture.

ArtDev 6y ago

The ADS is way worse than anything else because its potential for abuse. Police appear to abuse any tool they are given. They shoot protestors directly with tear gas grenades, aim for the face with rubber bullets, and pepper spray people in the face that are already prone and in handcuffs. From the wikipedia page on the ADS: "..may lead those who use them to become "trigger-happy", especially in dealing with peaceful protesters. Others have focused on concerns that weapons whose operative principle is that of inflicting pain (though "non-lethal") might be useful for such purposes as torture, as they leave no evidence of use, but undoubtedly have the capacity to inflict horrific pain on a restrained subject. According to Wired, the ADS has been rejected for fielding in Iraq due to Pentagon fears that it would be regarded as an instrument of torture.[54]"