6 ms·

To be fair, unlike Signal, Matrix forces users to manage their own encryption keys across devices (or at the very least, be aware of them), so a client-protocol

To be fair, unlike Signal, Matrix forces users to manage their own encryption keys across devices (or at the very least, be aware of them), so a client-protocol confusion is relatively a lesser concern. It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser.

roganartu 6y ago
> It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. That’s because swathes of people simply conflate the two. To a lot of people the icon for their web browser may as well just be called “The Internet”. I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook. I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  There’s a good reason to search your preferred search service for ‘Facebook.com’ or your internet banking website: You’re a lot less likely to try to browse to an incorrect spelling of the domain name.
  - tehbeard 6y ago
    Because Google search results are the absolute truth and can in no way be gamed by nefarious third parties, right? Bookmarks, the solution you are looking for is bookmarks.
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.
      - catalogia 6y ago
        The average person can't figure out bookmarks now? Do you suppose they also don't know how to tie their own shoes? Most people aren't imbeciles and using bookmarks is well within their capabilities.
        BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        Apparently you have never done support to non-technical users. They understand mouse, keyboard, screen,... and Internet, which is their browser. This is not to make fun of them. I drive a car and only know where to pour gas. I have zero interest in anything else in the car, I just want it to work. Carburator? Spare tire? Not interested.
        catalogia 6y ago
        "Doing support" gives you a very obvious selection bias: The people who come to you are the people who need help. The people who don't need help don't come to you and go unnoticed. I strongly encourage you to reflect on this and rethink your misanthropic attitude. If you like car analogies so much, the car equivalent of bookmarks is programming the radio's bookmark buttons to tune your favorite stations. I am not a car mechanic, but I sure as shit can do that much. For that matter, I also know that my car doesn't have a carburetor but has a spare 'donut' tire in the trunk. You too probably know these things of your own car. Again, I am not a car mechanic and neither am I some sort of polymath genius with advanced general knowledge across a broad number of domains. Cars interest me about as much as American football, which is to say not even remotely. I'm just a regular Joe who's not a complete imbecile.
        BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        Look, I do not know your experience but I am glad you can say that I am a misanthrope. This helps in the discussion. I work for 25+ years in IT in huge technological companies. I can tell you that in these technological companies the level of knowledge about things above the very basics (and how to use a bookmark is way above that) is poor to say the least. This is something I know very well, not some kind of vague deliberation. If you have managed IT operations in a large company you would know. I therefore assume that you do not. Now - expand this to the whole population. And as for the car - I had to check if I had a spare a few weeks ago, when the car mechanic who was coming to fix my punctured tire asked me. He had to direct me as to where to look. I am probably an idiot, of the kind of idiots who are not interested in cars. But I do not call the ones who are not the same.
- peteretep 6y ago
  > I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook 50% of the time when going to Facebook I mess up the typing and end up searching for it instead. I suspect that means I’m in those stats.
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    Or worse, you mess up and end up on some phishing site. For people like my mom, I've explicitly told them to search things rather than type in URLs directly.
    - TuringTest 6y ago
      I consider myself quite experienced in technology, and I do that whenever I go to a popular website that it's not in my browser history. I simply don't trust the variety of .com, .org, .net, .io, .tv... domains to know which one is the right one, but Google organic first results below the ads are usually accurate. For downloading software for which I don't know the publisher's name, I usually look for the Wikipedia article and check the "official website" external link. Sometimes I even double-check the article's history, just to be sure.
- Biep 6y ago
  > It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. Though "the web" and "the Internet" are harder to keep apart for many.
squeaky-clean 6y ago
A lot of people who are not particularly computer literate do not really grasp the difference between the web, the browser, and the search engine. Generally it's all just "the google" or similar. At least from my limited tech support experience.

roganartu 6y ago

> It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. That’s because swathes of people simply conflate the two. To a lot of people the icon for their web browser may as well just be called “The Internet”. I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook. I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
There’s a good reason to search your preferred search service for ‘Facebook.com’ or your internet banking website: You’re a lot less likely to try to browse to an incorrect spelling of the domain name.
- tehbeard 6y ago
  Because Google search results are the absolute truth and can in no way be gamed by nefarious third parties, right? Bookmarks, the solution you are looking for is bookmarks.
  - zentiggr 6y ago
    I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.
    - catalogia 6y ago
      The average person can't figure out bookmarks now? Do you suppose they also don't know how to tie their own shoes? Most people aren't imbeciles and using bookmarks is well within their capabilities.
      - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        Apparently you have never done support to non-technical users. They understand mouse, keyboard, screen,... and Internet, which is their browser. This is not to make fun of them. I drive a car and only know where to pour gas. I have zero interest in anything else in the car, I just want it to work. Carburator? Spare tire? Not interested.
        catalogia 6y ago
        "Doing support" gives you a very obvious selection bias: The people who come to you are the people who need help. The people who don't need help don't come to you and go unnoticed. I strongly encourage you to reflect on this and rethink your misanthropic attitude. If you like car analogies so much, the car equivalent of bookmarks is programming the radio's bookmark buttons to tune your favorite stations. I am not a car mechanic, but I sure as shit can do that much. For that matter, I also know that my car doesn't have a carburetor but has a spare 'donut' tire in the trunk. You too probably know these things of your own car. Again, I am not a car mechanic and neither am I some sort of polymath genius with advanced general knowledge across a broad number of domains. Cars interest me about as much as American football, which is to say not even remotely. I'm just a regular Joe who's not a complete imbecile.
        BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        Look, I do not know your experience but I am glad you can say that I am a misanthrope. This helps in the discussion. I work for 25+ years in IT in huge technological companies. I can tell you that in these technological companies the level of knowledge about things above the very basics (and how to use a bookmark is way above that) is poor to say the least. This is something I know very well, not some kind of vague deliberation. If you have managed IT operations in a large company you would know. I therefore assume that you do not. Now - expand this to the whole population. And as for the car - I had to check if I had a spare a few weeks ago, when the car mechanic who was coming to fix my punctured tire asked me. He had to direct me as to where to look. I am probably an idiot, of the kind of idiots who are not interested in cars. But I do not call the ones who are not the same.
peteretep 6y ago
> I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook 50% of the time when going to Facebook I mess up the typing and end up searching for it instead. I suspect that means I’m in those stats.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  Or worse, you mess up and end up on some phishing site. For people like my mom, I've explicitly told them to search things rather than type in URLs directly.
  - TuringTest 6y ago
    I consider myself quite experienced in technology, and I do that whenever I go to a popular website that it's not in my browser history. I simply don't trust the variety of .com, .org, .net, .io, .tv... domains to know which one is the right one, but Google organic first results below the ads are usually accurate. For downloading software for which I don't know the publisher's name, I usually look for the Wikipedia article and check the "official website" external link. Sometimes I even double-check the article's history, just to be sure.
Biep 6y ago
> It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. Though "the web" and "the Internet" are harder to keep apart for many.

squeaky-clean 6y ago

A lot of people who are not particularly computer literate do not really grasp the difference between the web, the browser, and the search engine. Generally it's all just "the google" or similar. At least from my limited tech support experience.