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Suggestion: the access logs your web server collects are enough for basic analytics, and if you are curious for more, you can manually instrument your site a li

Suggestion: the access logs your web server collects are enough for basic analytics, and if you are curious for more, you can manually instrument your site a little. You don't need to give Google the power to spy on your users.

nwellnhof 6y ago
Here's another suggestion: Learn how to configure Google Analytics properly. https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en "If all [data sharing] settings are OFF, your Analytics data is only used to provide and maintain the Analytics service."
- TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
  IIRC you can thank Mozilla for that setting!
- jesterson 6y ago
  Weill, this only "works" for you if you trust google. Given multiple security incidents in the past I am certainly not one of those people.
  - bad_user 6y ago
    What security incidents?
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    What security incidents? Of all tech companies I'd feel most secure with Google being the stewards of my data.
    - hyperman1 6y ago
      Snowden. They were leaking a lot of data to the NSA and they didn't even know. Of course, they upped their game since then, but their sheer size will always make them an interesting target and they have to fail only once.
      - jesterson 6y ago
        Thank you. I am purposely avoiding convo to be channeled into discussion of this or that incident - those who want to dig into the matter they can find plenty and draw their own conclusions.
    - jesterson 6y ago
      If google makes you feel more secure that doesn't mean it's secure. Feeling secure perhaps works for you but if we would assess how they deal with our data they would be quite far from pool of companies we can trust with data. And that's only based on what we know currently from security incidents.
      - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
        I have worked for a few years at Google and have a decent insight into all the processes that go into keeping user data secure. It's perfectly fine to have your reservations but so far as I am concerned, I sleep well. I don't share the same confidence for all my data that is floating around carelessly in some government spreadsheet somewhere, though.
- bad_user 6y ago
  There are multiple things you can do with GA of course, like IP anonymization, setting a smaller expiration date for that cookie, etc, however trust in Google Analytics is low and that won't change. Also a lot of websites, especially personal ones, are in violation of ePrivacy. You may not need GDPR consent for analytics, qualifying for a legitimate interest, but you still need a cookie banner when dropping cookies for analytics. The market is clear about it, analytics have to be first party and privacy preserving.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  The fact that that does not default to 'off' is quite telling.
JimDabell 6y ago
Server logs can't do this job well. If the system is designed well, in a lot of cases the users won't be receiving the resource from your server, they will be receiving it from a) their browser cache, b) their local network cache, c) their ISP's cache, or d) a CDN. Your server logs might be showing several thousand hits while the number of times a page is actually shown to somebody might be tens of thousands of hits. Server logs are great for logging what is happening on your server, but awful for understanding your user base.
- luckylion 6y ago
  Are b) and c) still a common thing with most of the Traffic now encrypted? I wouldn't worry about a) too much, as you've already counted them, most sites are "one time use", and those that aren't usually have some interactive or time-sensitive feature that requires short (if any) ttl on any caches not under the site's control. d) is true, but also is somewhat under the site's control and should provide numbers. Most people use GA for a rough picture of "how many people visit my site?", and stats from any CDN will most likely be enough for that. And browser caching doesn't really concern those people, because most visitors aren't returning visitors.
- eecc 6y ago
  Oh yes they do, and why would you want to break network caching to spy on your users? You can always add some little js to ping your server (logs! Again!) or a non-cacheable tracking pixel.
  - baddox 6y ago
    Sure, you can do that. Google Analytics is merely a free version of that service.
    - bengale 6y ago
      Free to you, the user pays with their data. This is apple giving the user the option not to subsidise the website operator.
bad_user 6y ago
Collecting server logs doesn't work if you host your website behind Cloudflare or another CDN. You can setup some sort of pixel that's never cached and that transmits the page via query params, but then the implementation isn't reliable and a PITA. If you have your own server, something like Matomo.org works better.
- jgrahamc 6y ago
  Or you could just use Cloudflare logs. It's far more reliable to use log information than JavaScript given the number of people who use blockers of some sort.
  - bad_user 6y ago
    Is that available for Free and Pro users? I think that's only available for Enterprise customers, no?
  - sgtfrankieboy 6y ago
    You need CloudFlare Enterprise to get those logs.

nwellnhof 6y ago

Here's another suggestion: Learn how to configure Google Analytics properly. https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en "If all [data sharing] settings are OFF, your Analytics data is only used to provide and maintain the Analytics service."

TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
IIRC you can thank Mozilla for that setting!
jesterson 6y ago
Weill, this only "works" for you if you trust google. Given multiple security incidents in the past I am certainly not one of those people.
- bad_user 6y ago
  What security incidents?
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  What security incidents? Of all tech companies I'd feel most secure with Google being the stewards of my data.
  - hyperman1 6y ago
    Snowden. They were leaking a lot of data to the NSA and they didn't even know. Of course, they upped their game since then, but their sheer size will always make them an interesting target and they have to fail only once.
    - jesterson 6y ago
      Thank you. I am purposely avoiding convo to be channeled into discussion of this or that incident - those who want to dig into the matter they can find plenty and draw their own conclusions.
  - jesterson 6y ago
    If google makes you feel more secure that doesn't mean it's secure. Feeling secure perhaps works for you but if we would assess how they deal with our data they would be quite far from pool of companies we can trust with data. And that's only based on what we know currently from security incidents.
    - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
      I have worked for a few years at Google and have a decent insight into all the processes that go into keeping user data secure. It's perfectly fine to have your reservations but so far as I am concerned, I sleep well. I don't share the same confidence for all my data that is floating around carelessly in some government spreadsheet somewhere, though.
bad_user 6y ago
There are multiple things you can do with GA of course, like IP anonymization, setting a smaller expiration date for that cookie, etc, however trust in Google Analytics is low and that won't change. Also a lot of websites, especially personal ones, are in violation of ePrivacy. You may not need GDPR consent for analytics, qualifying for a legitimate interest, but you still need a cookie banner when dropping cookies for analytics. The market is clear about it, analytics have to be first party and privacy preserving.
jacquesm 6y ago
The fact that that does not default to 'off' is quite telling.

JimDabell 6y ago

Server logs can't do this job well. If the system is designed well, in a lot of cases the users won't be receiving the resource from your server, they will be receiving it from a) their browser cache, b) their local network cache, c) their ISP's cache, or d) a CDN. Your server logs might be showing several thousand hits while the number of times a page is actually shown to somebody might be tens of thousands of hits. Server logs are great for logging what is happening on your server, but awful for understanding your user base.

luckylion 6y ago
Are b) and c) still a common thing with most of the Traffic now encrypted? I wouldn't worry about a) too much, as you've already counted them, most sites are "one time use", and those that aren't usually have some interactive or time-sensitive feature that requires short (if any) ttl on any caches not under the site's control. d) is true, but also is somewhat under the site's control and should provide numbers. Most people use GA for a rough picture of "how many people visit my site?", and stats from any CDN will most likely be enough for that. And browser caching doesn't really concern those people, because most visitors aren't returning visitors.
eecc 6y ago
Oh yes they do, and why would you want to break network caching to spy on your users? You can always add some little js to ping your server (logs! Again!) or a non-cacheable tracking pixel.
- baddox 6y ago
  Sure, you can do that. Google Analytics is merely a free version of that service.
  - bengale 6y ago
    Free to you, the user pays with their data. This is apple giving the user the option not to subsidise the website operator.

bad_user 6y ago

Collecting server logs doesn't work if you host your website behind Cloudflare or another CDN. You can setup some sort of pixel that's never cached and that transmits the page via query params, but then the implementation isn't reliable and a PITA. If you have your own server, something like Matomo.org works better.

jgrahamc 6y ago
Or you could just use Cloudflare logs. It's far more reliable to use log information than JavaScript given the number of people who use blockers of some sort.
- bad_user 6y ago
  Is that available for Free and Pro users? I think that's only available for Enterprise customers, no?
- sgtfrankieboy 6y ago
  You need CloudFlare Enterprise to get those logs.