8 ms·

Both of those are right on point, and match my observations within my own circles. For me stallmans cancellation was a big turning point. I'm using a pseudonym

Both of those are right on point, and match my observations within my own circles. For me stallmans cancellation was a big turning point. I'm using a pseudonym everywhere now. I can't risk someone pulling up a comment or post years from now and using it to ruin my reputation or career, simply because i may have voiced an unpopular or controversial opinion that did not age well. It seems, too, that making jokes is very risky. With text online it's just far too easy to take something out of context and misrepresent or weaponize a person's words. I have had this happen to me personally and it's unbelievably frustrating. People aren't allowed to make mistakes, it seems. It is just too fraught, and even sincerity and honesty are not safe.

projektfu 6y ago
You have to make giant, sweeping mistakes a part of your career or personality. Rush Limbaugh lost one tangential job, but is still influential and wealthy.
- dilandau 6y ago
  Or make a private joke to your friend about a dongle.
  - projektfu 6y ago
    Did that work out well for him in the end?
    - dilandau 6y ago
      No I would not say it did. Being publicly shamed, kicked out of a conference, fired, and having your name posted all over the place are the kinds of things that tend to stay with you. Remember, we're talking about a stupid dick joke between friends.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        The whole thing got way out of hand and I'm sure it was very stressful. On the other hand, I understand he had a new job in short order. (On still the other hand, the person who kicked the whole thing off was also fired and AFAIK was basically locked out of the industry--at least in any public role.)
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    explain
    - ls612 6y ago
      Several years ago two guys (who iirc were friends and there together) were at some industry conference and one whispered to the other a suggestive joke about dongles. A woman (who I believe was a complete stranger to both of them) was sitting a few rows back and heard them and posted on Twitter how these guys were horrible misogynists and etc and got the Twitter mob to attack them.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      https://arstechnica.com/staff/2013/03/donglegate-is-classic-overreaction-and-everyone-pays/ https://arstechnica.com/staff/2013/03/donglegate-is-classic-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5391667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5391667
throwawaylolx 6y ago
It's not just commenting--it's any interaction at all: https://old.reddit.com/r/WatchRedditDie/comments/hddnml/the_warnings_have_changed_into_bannings/ https://old.reddit.com/r/WatchRedditDie/comments/hddnml/the_...
apatters 6y ago
It's undoubtedly more dangerous to be critical of the mainstream narrative now than it was 10-20 years ago. There's an alt right author called Vox Day (and I'm a little afraid to be referencing him here) who makes the following argument: if mainstream thought becomes increasingly constricted, and disagreeing with it becomes increasingly dangerous, people will do one of two things. Either they'll self-censor, or they'll "flip the switch" and just go totally anti-mainstream, because it's safer to associate and identify with people who won't get them fired for their opinions. The greater the censorship and fear, the more people will "flip" in a search for safety. Now he is alt right and he has a vested interest in portraying the ascendancy of the alt right as inevitable, but the point is nonetheless logical, and quite disturbing. It may be that punishing moderately "wrong" speech will ultimately drive moderates into the waiting arms of the extreme right, where they won't be judged so harshly for their errors. Moreover if the purity spiral [1] theory is correct, this phenomenon may be hard to stop, because punishing people for their dissenting speech is an effective way to gain status in many communities! [1] https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a-purity-spiral/ https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a...
- war1025 6y ago
  > Either they'll self-censor, or they'll "flip the switch" and just go totally anti-mainstream I wouldn't call myself alt-right, far from it in fact. But I definitely see this happening in me over the past few years. Starting the night of the 2016 election. It's one of those things that makes me wonder how much I've changed vs how much society has changed around me. For instance, I learned first thing this morning that I have a corrupt faith and that I've fractured the nation [1]. There's only so much debasement one can listen to before you just tune out. [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/06/23/881992622/book-jesus-and-john-wayne-explores-what-it-means-to-be-a-christian-man https://www.npr.org/2020/06/23/881992622/book-jesus-and-john...
  - wincy 6y ago
    I’ve listened to NPR my entire adult life but now it feels like I’m listening to the liberal version of The 700 Club.
war1025 6y ago
> I'm using a pseudonym everywhere now. I've wondered a couple times recently how dangerous it is that I'm easily discoverable. I tell myself that since I live in the Midwest, the worst of it hasn't reached here yet. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
ghaff 6y ago
Per a comment up-thread, I wouldn't place too big a bet on pseudonyms remaining pseudonyms forever. Sure, absent a real effort to unmask you, you'll probably be fine. But sustained efforts to figure out pseudonymous identities often succeed.
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  It won't even need a sustained effort once ai gets somewhat decent at analysing writing patterns. I don't think it will really matter if it's even that accurate, really, like it doesn't really matter to the police how accurate facial scanners are people who are looking for troublemakers will go with it anyway.
Izkata 6y ago
> People aren't allowed to make mistakes, it seems. Not even mistakes. Things that were considered progressive as little as 15-20 years ago have now been flipped into "microaggressions".
- HideousKojima 6y ago
  The most infuriating to me is that educational curriculum drilled into people's heads that color blindness and treating all people equally was the key to ending racism, and now there's been a complete 180 on that

projektfu 6y ago

You have to make giant, sweeping mistakes a part of your career or personality. Rush Limbaugh lost one tangential job, but is still influential and wealthy.

dilandau 6y ago
Or make a private joke to your friend about a dongle.
- projektfu 6y ago
  Did that work out well for him in the end?
  - dilandau 6y ago
    No I would not say it did. Being publicly shamed, kicked out of a conference, fired, and having your name posted all over the place are the kinds of things that tend to stay with you. Remember, we're talking about a stupid dick joke between friends.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      The whole thing got way out of hand and I'm sure it was very stressful. On the other hand, I understand he had a new job in short order. (On still the other hand, the person who kicked the whole thing off was also fired and AFAIK was basically locked out of the industry--at least in any public role.)
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  explain
  - ls612 6y ago
    Several years ago two guys (who iirc were friends and there together) were at some industry conference and one whispered to the other a suggestive joke about dongles. A woman (who I believe was a complete stranger to both of them) was sitting a few rows back and heard them and posted on Twitter how these guys were horrible misogynists and etc and got the Twitter mob to attack them.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    https://arstechnica.com/staff/2013/03/donglegate-is-classic-overreaction-and-everyone-pays/ https://arstechnica.com/staff/2013/03/donglegate-is-classic-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5391667 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5391667

throwawaylolx 6y ago

It's not just commenting--it's any interaction at all: https://old.reddit.com/r/WatchRedditDie/comments/hddnml/the_warnings_have_changed_into_bannings/ https://old.reddit.com/r/WatchRedditDie/comments/hddnml/the_...

apatters 6y ago

It's undoubtedly more dangerous to be critical of the mainstream narrative now than it was 10-20 years ago. There's an alt right author called Vox Day (and I'm a little afraid to be referencing him here) who makes the following argument: if mainstream thought becomes increasingly constricted, and disagreeing with it becomes increasingly dangerous, people will do one of two things. Either they'll self-censor, or they'll "flip the switch" and just go totally anti-mainstream, because it's safer to associate and identify with people who won't get them fired for their opinions. The greater the censorship and fear, the more people will "flip" in a search for safety. Now he is alt right and he has a vested interest in portraying the ascendancy of the alt right as inevitable, but the point is nonetheless logical, and quite disturbing. It may be that punishing moderately "wrong" speech will ultimately drive moderates into the waiting arms of the extreme right, where they won't be judged so harshly for their errors. Moreover if the purity spiral [1] theory is correct, this phenomenon may be hard to stop, because punishing people for their dissenting speech is an effective way to gain status in many communities! [1] https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a-purity-spiral/ https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a...

war1025 6y ago
> Either they'll self-censor, or they'll "flip the switch" and just go totally anti-mainstream I wouldn't call myself alt-right, far from it in fact. But I definitely see this happening in me over the past few years. Starting the night of the 2016 election. It's one of those things that makes me wonder how much I've changed vs how much society has changed around me. For instance, I learned first thing this morning that I have a corrupt faith and that I've fractured the nation [1]. There's only so much debasement one can listen to before you just tune out. [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/06/23/881992622/book-jesus-and-john-wayne-explores-what-it-means-to-be-a-christian-man https://www.npr.org/2020/06/23/881992622/book-jesus-and-john...
- wincy 6y ago
  I’ve listened to NPR my entire adult life but now it feels like I’m listening to the liberal version of The 700 Club.

war1025 6y ago

> I'm using a pseudonym everywhere now. I've wondered a couple times recently how dangerous it is that I'm easily discoverable. I tell myself that since I live in the Midwest, the worst of it hasn't reached here yet. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

ghaff 6y ago

Per a comment up-thread, I wouldn't place too big a bet on pseudonyms remaining pseudonyms forever. Sure, absent a real effort to unmask you, you'll probably be fine. But sustained efforts to figure out pseudonymous identities often succeed.

thatguy0900 6y ago
It won't even need a sustained effort once ai gets somewhat decent at analysing writing patterns. I don't think it will really matter if it's even that accurate, really, like it doesn't really matter to the police how accurate facial scanners are people who are looking for troublemakers will go with it anyway.

Izkata 6y ago

> People aren't allowed to make mistakes, it seems. Not even mistakes. Things that were considered progressive as little as 15-20 years ago have now been flipped into "microaggressions".

HideousKojima 6y ago
The most infuriating to me is that educational curriculum drilled into people's heads that color blindness and treating all people equally was the key to ending racism, and now there's been a complete 180 on that