5 ms·

That was bad journalism. Would you also stop trusting all doctors after meeting a bad one?

by zoul 6y ago

asparuh_kostov 6y ago
The bar to be a doctor is higher than having internet and a blog.
- neonate 6y ago
  Not that much higher.
  - dijit 6y ago
    One of these things requires 20 minutes and €5. The other requires more than half a decade of intense education, internships, tests and further verifications. (Not to mention thousands of Euros in education costs, if not state sponsored) I cannot think of a larger difference in terms of barrier to entry.
    - dazag 6y ago
      You don't seem to understand, that under capitalism, mostly any work or study has to be backed up with money. Doctors don't become doctors a different way a reporter becomes one. What they teach you in universities it's not whay you end up doing. A reporter doesn't mean to do bad when they start studying, neither does a doctor. The results are totally different.
    - mratsim 6y ago
      Half a decade? In France Medical Doctors require 6 years of externship, 4 years of internship + various amount of years depending on the specialization up to 5 (?) for example for neurology. It's also the population that lead to the most suicides due to how intense the expectations are and failure will lead you to tenures you don't want (There is a spot for everyone but not where you want and on the speciality you want, even though we are lacking doctors ...)
      - dijit 6y ago
        I wanted to say decade but I know someone would say "you don't need to do 10 years, you are only in school 6 in my country". So, I said 'more than half-a-decade' because that is essentially the absolute minimum that nobody can be pedantic about.
coldtea 6y ago
Me, sure. From then on they'd have to earn my trust - not just get it because they're doctors...
stevenjohns 6y ago
* What if every hospital had an overt political stance and forced doctors to make diagnoses based on those politics? * What if the hospitals had a financial incentive to sensationalise public health? * What if independent doctors only got into medicine in the first place to make decisions based on their own partisan politics? Unfortunately all US media, and most international media, is equally bad and built on bad intentions for varying levels of nefarious purposes.
- yreg 6y ago
  This is interesting to me. In central Europe, or at least my country, the serious media keep very high standards. Basically the only people who find the largest publications "bad" here are conspiracy nuts, fascists and politicians involved in uncovered corruption scandals. I find our independent media to be a key element of our democracy and I am worried when I hear the US media don't work quite the same. Edit: I thought I might as well reply with our solutions to your bullet points - Our newspapers don't force their views on their journalists. The bosses require quality and factfulness, but topics are up to the journalist. The newspaper as an organisation is equally hostile to all the politicians. - The financial incentive is to continue to hold their image, because they live from subscription fees paid by people who view them as essential for our society. (+ ads ofc) - If one wants power to change things the far superior strategy in my country is to do the actual politics and not to report on it.
  - 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
    Same here but eastern Europe. Heck, American newspapers even endorse candidates which I find insane, it's like psychiatrists encouraging suicide.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    Independent objective media are the lifeblood of democracy. You literally cannot have a healthy democracy without a strong and independent fourth estate. For a long time I underestimated how much of a bedrock requirement this is. It's easy to dismiss the media as entertainment at best or noise at worst. But at best they model fairness, balance, and rationality, and if you have no one doing that in public the quality of discourse soon crashes.
Lio 6y ago
Would you trust a hospital with a reputation for employing doctors that never get pulled up or fired for their bad work?
mekoka 6y ago
How many bad doctors do you need to meet before deciding that they're also human? As the saying goes, "trust, but verify".
Mindwipe 6y ago
Doctors are heavily regulated. Journalists aren't. I'd expect a doctor that failed to maintain professional standards to be struck off, and I'd expect the professional management services to proactively get them struck off before they could do anything dangerous. Professional journalism has a long, long track record of opposing any consequences to their actions whatsoever. I love the idea of professional journalists. But the reality of them just does not work in practice in our current media industries.
- callmeal 6y ago
  >I'd expect a doctor that failed to maintain professional standards to be struck off, and I'd expect the professional management services to proactively get them struck off before they could do anything dangerous. Unfortunately expectations do not match reality. 10% of deaths are due to medical errors [0]. Then look at how the rest of the medical establishment are failing us. CDC is prohibited from naming the hospitals that have this error. The only thing they report on is trends [1]. If you have a hospital in your neighborhood, can you find out anything about it? From the medical error rate, to the spread of Candida Auris[2] is there any dangerous news about your local hospital/healthcare system that is public? [0]: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_su... [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db118.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db118.htm [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-candida-auris.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-can...
projektfu 6y ago
If you buy a frozen pizza and it tastes terrible, should you continue buying and eating them for a week until you have enough data points? If a single sample of corn in a shipment is contaminated with aflatoxin should you keep testing it and trying to find the good corn? If a program corrupts your data on first use should you keep trying it on different data before rejecting it?
dataduck 6y ago
Can you find any recent examples of good journalism?

That was bad journalism. Would you also stop trusting all doctors after meeting a bad one?

by zoul 6y ago

That was bad journalism. Would you also stop trusting all doctors after meeting a bad one?

asparuh_kostov 6y ago

The bar to be a doctor is higher than having internet and a blog.

neonate 6y ago
Not that much higher.
- dijit 6y ago
  One of these things requires 20 minutes and €5. The other requires more than half a decade of intense education, internships, tests and further verifications. (Not to mention thousands of Euros in education costs, if not state sponsored) I cannot think of a larger difference in terms of barrier to entry.
  - dazag 6y ago
    You don't seem to understand, that under capitalism, mostly any work or study has to be backed up with money. Doctors don't become doctors a different way a reporter becomes one. What they teach you in universities it's not whay you end up doing. A reporter doesn't mean to do bad when they start studying, neither does a doctor. The results are totally different.
  - mratsim 6y ago
    Half a decade? In France Medical Doctors require 6 years of externship, 4 years of internship + various amount of years depending on the specialization up to 5 (?) for example for neurology. It's also the population that lead to the most suicides due to how intense the expectations are and failure will lead you to tenures you don't want (There is a spot for everyone but not where you want and on the speciality you want, even though we are lacking doctors ...)
    - dijit 6y ago
      I wanted to say decade but I know someone would say "you don't need to do 10 years, you are only in school 6 in my country". So, I said 'more than half-a-decade' because that is essentially the absolute minimum that nobody can be pedantic about.

coldtea 6y ago

Me, sure. From then on they'd have to earn my trust - not just get it because they're doctors...

stevenjohns 6y ago

* What if every hospital had an overt political stance and forced doctors to make diagnoses based on those politics? * What if the hospitals had a financial incentive to sensationalise public health? * What if independent doctors only got into medicine in the first place to make decisions based on their own partisan politics? Unfortunately all US media, and most international media, is equally bad and built on bad intentions for varying levels of nefarious purposes.

yreg 6y ago
This is interesting to me. In central Europe, or at least my country, the serious media keep very high standards. Basically the only people who find the largest publications "bad" here are conspiracy nuts, fascists and politicians involved in uncovered corruption scandals. I find our independent media to be a key element of our democracy and I am worried when I hear the US media don't work quite the same. Edit: I thought I might as well reply with our solutions to your bullet points - Our newspapers don't force their views on their journalists. The bosses require quality and factfulness, but topics are up to the journalist. The newspaper as an organisation is equally hostile to all the politicians. - The financial incentive is to continue to hold their image, because they live from subscription fees paid by people who view them as essential for our society. (+ ads ofc) - If one wants power to change things the far superior strategy in my country is to do the actual politics and not to report on it.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  Same here but eastern Europe. Heck, American newspapers even endorse candidates which I find insane, it's like psychiatrists encouraging suicide.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Independent objective media are the lifeblood of democracy. You literally cannot have a healthy democracy without a strong and independent fourth estate. For a long time I underestimated how much of a bedrock requirement this is. It's easy to dismiss the media as entertainment at best or noise at worst. But at best they model fairness, balance, and rationality, and if you have no one doing that in public the quality of discourse soon crashes.

Lio 6y ago

Would you trust a hospital with a reputation for employing doctors that never get pulled up or fired for their bad work?

mekoka 6y ago

How many bad doctors do you need to meet before deciding that they're also human? As the saying goes, "trust, but verify".

Mindwipe 6y ago

Doctors are heavily regulated. Journalists aren't. I'd expect a doctor that failed to maintain professional standards to be struck off, and I'd expect the professional management services to proactively get them struck off before they could do anything dangerous. Professional journalism has a long, long track record of opposing any consequences to their actions whatsoever. I love the idea of professional journalists. But the reality of them just does not work in practice in our current media industries.

callmeal 6y ago
>I'd expect a doctor that failed to maintain professional standards to be struck off, and I'd expect the professional management services to proactively get them struck off before they could do anything dangerous. Unfortunately expectations do not match reality. 10% of deaths are due to medical errors [0]. Then look at how the rest of the medical establishment are failing us. CDC is prohibited from naming the hospitals that have this error. The only thing they report on is trends [1]. If you have a hospital in your neighborhood, can you find out anything about it? From the medical error rate, to the spread of Candida Auris[2] is there any dangerous news about your local hospital/healthcare system that is public? [0]: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_su... [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db118.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db118.htm [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-candida-auris.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-can...

projektfu 6y ago

If you buy a frozen pizza and it tastes terrible, should you continue buying and eating them for a week until you have enough data points? If a single sample of corn in a shipment is contaminated with aflatoxin should you keep testing it and trying to find the good corn? If a program corrupts your data on first use should you keep trying it on different data before rejecting it?

dataduck 6y ago

Can you find any recent examples of good journalism?