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Kids don't actually demand that much time. It just turns out a lot of (Western) people spend tons of time with their kids, so we think they demand a lot of time

by smabie 6y ago

Kids don't actually demand that much time. It just turns out a lot of (Western) people spend tons of time with their kids, so we think they demand a lot of time. For example, I used to live in Africa and in the town where I lived, kids 2 and older were expected to look out after themselves. Regularly, a 4-year old would be asked to go get some bread from the store, or even cigarettes and beer. I think this is natural, and helps the kids develop and learn resilience. Kids will be fine on their own, and I don't think it's a problem for both parents to work for full-time, on a start-up or otherwise. Society should have no problem with a 6 year old playing alone in a park, or walking to school, or whatever. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_enough_parent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_enough_parent

thelittlenag 6y ago
I wish I had more up votes to give.
the_af 6y ago
Do you have kids? Are you speaking from experience? A kid of 2 is not able to look after him/herself. Kids that young need lots of attention. I am speaking from experience, by the way.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  I have kids. Including a one and a half year old. He wants a lot of attention, and he gets it, especially in these covid times. But wanting attention and needing it are different things.
  - the_af 6y ago
    It's both. When I hear that "kids don't demand that much attention" it feels terribly insulting, plus it opens the door for terrible job practices, demanding from parents and telling them "don't use your kids as an excuse, they don't actually demand too much". The notion that a 2 year old can take care of him/herself is ridiculous. No-one who has a 2 year old will actually say that. That's why I asked the parent poster (and they didn't reply...) This, for example, is deeply problematic: > Kids will be fine on their own, and I don't think it's a problem for both parents to work for full-time, on a start-up or otherwise. This flies in the face of evidence, plus it opens the door for terrible demands to be asked of employees who are parents.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      > This flies in the face of evidence What evidence, beyond your assertions? Fwiw I do not believe the person you are quoting meant that you can literally leave your child at home alone all day. Rather they are suggesting you don't need to be their playmate and constant companion.
vmception 6y ago
Sub-Saharan Africa continues to be the region with the highest under-five mortality rate in the world—78 deaths per 1,000 live births. In 2018, 1 in 13 children in sub-Saharan Africa died before reaching her or his fifth birthday—15 times higher than the risk for children born in high-income countries. [1] The West is pretty much avoiding that specific scenario. [1] - https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/under-five-mortality/#:~:text=Sub%2DSaharan%20Africa%20continues%20to,born%20in%20high%2Dincome%20countries https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/under-five-mort....
- lazyasciiart 6y ago
  One third of those died as newborns, and another third died before their first birthday. Once they hit their first birthday, the risk of a child dying before five is indeed about twice as high as in the highest income countries, and it's not "lack of supervision" that kills them - it's measles, malaria, diarrhoea and starvation. This is not evidence that western parenting is what keeps their kids alive.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tropdrop 6y ago
I'll second your opinion about raising children outside the West, but from Russia - due to relatively great childcare options (a hold over from the Soviet days, when women were tasked en masse to rebuild the country after the massive casualties of soldiers in WWII [1], and the infrastructure to support that had to be rolled out reliably and systematically), it seems to me that my own peers in Russia are less conflicted about children, and less fixated on this psychoanalytic conviction that every single thing one does will potentially create trauma for a lifetime. When visiting my family, I noticed most adults were married and with children by the early twenties - but they didn't put their life on hold! They continued their degrees (men and women both) and careers, children in hand. Someone told me the equivalent of "it's just children, what's the big deal?" when I asked about it. Note this was after the reversal of the decrease in fertility trend of the early 2000s. [2] I came away with the impression that my Russian colleagues are mostly correct. We have been working and fighting for survival for eons - the entirety of human history! And it is only in the last couple of hundred years that we developed this idea that a child is precious and fragile, and a parent must be nothing short of perfect lest they raise a monster. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia

by smabie 6y ago

thelittlenag 6y ago

I wish I had more up votes to give.

the_af 6y ago

Do you have kids? Are you speaking from experience? A kid of 2 is not able to look after him/herself. Kids that young need lots of attention. I am speaking from experience, by the way.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
I have kids. Including a one and a half year old. He wants a lot of attention, and he gets it, especially in these covid times. But wanting attention and needing it are different things.
- the_af 6y ago
  It's both. When I hear that "kids don't demand that much attention" it feels terribly insulting, plus it opens the door for terrible job practices, demanding from parents and telling them "don't use your kids as an excuse, they don't actually demand too much". The notion that a 2 year old can take care of him/herself is ridiculous. No-one who has a 2 year old will actually say that. That's why I asked the parent poster (and they didn't reply...) This, for example, is deeply problematic: > Kids will be fine on their own, and I don't think it's a problem for both parents to work for full-time, on a start-up or otherwise. This flies in the face of evidence, plus it opens the door for terrible demands to be asked of employees who are parents.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    > This flies in the face of evidence What evidence, beyond your assertions? Fwiw I do not believe the person you are quoting meant that you can literally leave your child at home alone all day. Rather they are suggesting you don't need to be their playmate and constant companion.

vmception 6y ago

Sub-Saharan Africa continues to be the region with the highest under-five mortality rate in the world—78 deaths per 1,000 live births. In 2018, 1 in 13 children in sub-Saharan Africa died before reaching her or his fifth birthday—15 times higher than the risk for children born in high-income countries. [1] The West is pretty much avoiding that specific scenario. [1] - https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/under-five-mortality/#:~:text=Sub%2DSaharan%20Africa%20continues%20to,born%20in%20high%2Dincome%20countries https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/under-five-mort....

lazyasciiart 6y ago
One third of those died as newborns, and another third died before their first birthday. Once they hit their first birthday, the risk of a child dying before five is indeed about twice as high as in the highest income countries, and it's not "lack of supervision" that kills them - it's measles, malaria, diarrhoea and starvation. This is not evidence that western parenting is what keeps their kids alive.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tropdrop 6y ago

I'll second your opinion about raising children outside the West, but from Russia - due to relatively great childcare options (a hold over from the Soviet days, when women were tasked en masse to rebuild the country after the massive casualties of soldiers in WWII [1], and the infrastructure to support that had to be rolled out reliably and systematically), it seems to me that my own peers in Russia are less conflicted about children, and less fixated on this psychoanalytic conviction that every single thing one does will potentially create trauma for a lifetime. When visiting my family, I noticed most adults were married and with children by the early twenties - but they didn't put their life on hold! They continued their degrees (men and women both) and careers, children in hand. Someone told me the equivalent of "it's just children, what's the big deal?" when I asked about it. Note this was after the reversal of the decrease in fertility trend of the early 2000s. [2] I came away with the impression that my Russian colleagues are mostly correct. We have been working and fighting for survival for eons - the entirety of human history! And it is only in the last couple of hundred years that we developed this idea that a child is precious and fragile, and a parent must be nothing short of perfect lest they raise a monster. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia