4 ms·

This was a good read and I thank Tracy for writing it. However, I do have some remarks about the comments I am reading here, so I am writing a top level post so

This was a good read and I thank Tracy for writing it. However, I do have some remarks about the comments I am reading here, so I am writing a top level post so as to not single out a specific comment. It doesn't become ok to stereotype just because the stereotypes are saying nice things about the right demographics. I read a comment here talking about women going into management roles because of higher 'EQ', and being better than men at noticing social and monetary rewards, and what not. I think that if someone had made a comment about men having more 'technical aptitude' or something they'd be down-voted, and rightly.

jecel 6y ago
> I read a comment here talking about women going into management roles because of higher 'EQ', and being better than men at noticing social and monetary rewards, and what not. There was more than one comment, so you might be right about some of them. But the ones I read had an extra level of indirection: it wasn't the authors of the comments who had the "women have higher EQ" idea but the people they were talking about and who are pressuring women to move into management. So it is not "X is true" but "Y thinks X is true and so is doing Z" that is being presented as a fact.
alexashka 6y ago
> It doesn't become ok to stereotype just because... What's psychology? Theories regarding human behaviour. What's a stereotype? A theory regarding human behaviour you think is inaccurate. Unless we want to limit ourselves to platitudes that interest no one because everyone agrees, we're going to express thoughts that some people consider to be stereotypical. I take it as a given that I can only please some people, some of the time. Therefore I'm ok with expressing opinions that may be deemed stereotypical and I extend that freedom to everyone else. I call it freedom of speech. I hope freedom of speech is ok with you.
pm90 6y ago
Yes the tone deafness in these comments is astonishing. I can absolutely see why women/minorities are unwilling to put up with that to work in technology. My hope is that more people begin to see that this isn’t ok and that the culture changes, and I am glad that you pointed this out specifically.
Der_Einzige 6y ago
The evidence of woman having on average EQ that is higher than men is overwhelming, at least in experimental settings [1]. The evidence of men having more "technical aptitude" or even "IQ" either doesn't exist or is supremely terrible. Stereotypes are just heuristics for trying to discern a quality about someone based on their appearance. Sometimes those stereotypes are highly predictive. For instance, if you have poor eye-sight, than your on average more intelligent than people with better eye-sight[2][3][4] This is why society (rightfully) assumes that you are smarter or more "nerdy" if you wear glasses. This does not tell you what the cause is, but the stereotype absolutely helps make predictions about individuals when other information is not available. Sorry, it sucks, and it's not fair to be stereotyped one way while not being the person you are stereotyped as, but stereotyping is in general both inevitable and good. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_emotional_intelligence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_emotional... [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3417304 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3417304 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2904062 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2904062).%E2%80%9D [4] http://www.pum.edu.pl/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/13211/54-01-01.pdf http://www.pum.edu.pl/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/13211/54-0...).%E2%80%9D
globular-toast 6y ago
You'll also notice how the comments are not "wow, it sounds hard to rise to the top 1% of society and amass more wealth than most people will see in their lifetimes" but rather "wow, it sounds hard to be a woman". I've honestly never seen worse sexism than in this thread. Truly shameful.

jecel 6y ago

> I read a comment here talking about women going into management roles because of higher 'EQ', and being better than men at noticing social and monetary rewards, and what not. There was more than one comment, so you might be right about some of them. But the ones I read had an extra level of indirection: it wasn't the authors of the comments who had the "women have higher EQ" idea but the people they were talking about and who are pressuring women to move into management. So it is not "X is true" but "Y thinks X is true and so is doing Z" that is being presented as a fact.

alexashka 6y ago

> It doesn't become ok to stereotype just because... What's psychology? Theories regarding human behaviour. What's a stereotype? A theory regarding human behaviour you think is inaccurate. Unless we want to limit ourselves to platitudes that interest no one because everyone agrees, we're going to express thoughts that some people consider to be stereotypical. I take it as a given that I can only please some people, some of the time. Therefore I'm ok with expressing opinions that may be deemed stereotypical and I extend that freedom to everyone else. I call it freedom of speech. I hope freedom of speech is ok with you.

pm90 6y ago

Yes the tone deafness in these comments is astonishing. I can absolutely see why women/minorities are unwilling to put up with that to work in technology. My hope is that more people begin to see that this isn’t ok and that the culture changes, and I am glad that you pointed this out specifically.

Der_Einzige 6y ago

The evidence of woman having on average EQ that is higher than men is overwhelming, at least in experimental settings [1]. The evidence of men having more "technical aptitude" or even "IQ" either doesn't exist or is supremely terrible. Stereotypes are just heuristics for trying to discern a quality about someone based on their appearance. Sometimes those stereotypes are highly predictive. For instance, if you have poor eye-sight, than your on average more intelligent than people with better eye-sight[2][3][4] This is why society (rightfully) assumes that you are smarter or more "nerdy" if you wear glasses. This does not tell you what the cause is, but the stereotype absolutely helps make predictions about individuals when other information is not available. Sorry, it sucks, and it's not fair to be stereotyped one way while not being the person you are stereotyped as, but stereotyping is in general both inevitable and good. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_emotional_intelligence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_emotional... [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3417304 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3417304 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2904062 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2904062).%E2%80%9D [4] http://www.pum.edu.pl/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/13211/54-01-01.pdf http://www.pum.edu.pl/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/13211/54-0...).%E2%80%9D

globular-toast 6y ago

You'll also notice how the comments are not "wow, it sounds hard to rise to the top 1% of society and amass more wealth than most people will see in their lifetimes" but rather "wow, it sounds hard to be a woman". I've honestly never seen worse sexism than in this thread. Truly shameful.