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Hey, thanks for your replies, and interesting project! Correct me if I'm wrong, but quirks mode applies when the doctype declaration is missing, right? I'm talk

Hey, thanks for your replies, and interesting project! Correct me if I'm wrong, but quirks mode applies when the doctype declaration is missing, right? I'm talking about modern, validated HTML documents that have no CSS. And I'm sorry to repeat myself if you go over my comment history, but the whole thing about having to specify all of a sudden in a proprietary tag that I suggest to use the device(-)width as the width... well, is my ultimate pet peeve. Again, I'm talking about valid documents that make no use of CSS at all, and that failing to include that render the text font microscopically. That would be my suggested point of departure for the improvements, and generally speaking I feel the overall default aesthetics could be improved without breaking anything. Here is a relevant example. The very first website ever made [1] renders like this [2] without a viewport meta style on a current iPhone, but like [3] when you include this tag which made its debut decades later. Again, I believe way more could safely be done from the browser side, but this would be a sane start. Edit: I realize I'm giving the oldest possible example, which necessarily triggers quirks mode, but the same can be said of any modern, proper HTML document without CSS. [1] http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html [2] https://imgur.com/gallery/0THBhQ9 https://imgur.com/gallery/0THBhQ9 [3] https://imgur.com/gallery/HQkxXFF https://imgur.com/gallery/HQkxXFF

sergeykish 6y ago
Thank you. Ah, so you grudge is <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">, sorry, I was confused by default awful table style. That is much harder, there was no simple answer [1], browsers displayed viewport, some (Opera Mobile or Mini) had text reflow option. One company decided that it is authors responsibility [2], others followed. And now it is bad default. So what can we do? Improve own experience – vote with your feet, inject setting in extension, patch and compile open source browser – plenty of options, and write about it. From my experience – Linux, uMatrix, Stylus, patch Firefox, have to write now (I'll edit later). That's why why meant by "have you updated yours (user.css)?". If anything we need more choice. Build your own browser -Ungoogled, Iridium, Tor browser, Beaker Browser. Hack on smaller codebase - Netsurf, Dillo. There are graphical DOS browsers, console browsers, BeOS browser, Plan 9 browser, Emacs browser. I mentioned quirks mode (correct, without doctype) to show how insignificant details with almost no presence still guarded by browsers. That page was written before pixel perfect reproduction was a thing. There are a lot of pages from another era https://theoldnet.com/ https://theoldnet.com/ [1] https://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/viewports2.html https://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/viewports2.html [2] https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/UsingtheViewport/UsingtheViewport.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ap...
- ezequiel-garzon 6y ago
  Thank you. Ah, so you grudge is <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">, sorry, I was confused by default awful table style. Thank you, Sergey! And now that I've taken a look at your home webpage I'm happy to see you agree with me! Thanks for the detailed explanations and the links. Comments like yours make HN the Internet gem it is!

sergeykish 6y ago

Thank you. Ah, so you grudge is <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">, sorry, I was confused by default awful table style. That is much harder, there was no simple answer [1], browsers displayed viewport, some (Opera Mobile or Mini) had text reflow option. One company decided that it is authors responsibility [2], others followed. And now it is bad default. So what can we do? Improve own experience – vote with your feet, inject setting in extension, patch and compile open source browser – plenty of options, and write about it. From my experience – Linux, uMatrix, Stylus, patch Firefox, have to write now (I'll edit later). That's why why meant by "have you updated yours (user.css)?". If anything we need more choice. Build your own browser -Ungoogled, Iridium, Tor browser, Beaker Browser. Hack on smaller codebase - Netsurf, Dillo. There are graphical DOS browsers, console browsers, BeOS browser, Plan 9 browser, Emacs browser. I mentioned quirks mode (correct, without doctype) to show how insignificant details with almost no presence still guarded by browsers. That page was written before pixel perfect reproduction was a thing. There are a lot of pages from another era https://theoldnet.com/ https://theoldnet.com/ [1] https://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/viewports2.html https://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/viewports2.html [2] https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/UsingtheViewport/UsingtheViewport.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ap...

ezequiel-garzon 6y ago
Thank you. Ah, so you grudge is <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">, sorry, I was confused by default awful table style. Thank you, Sergey! And now that I've taken a look at your home webpage I'm happy to see you agree with me! Thanks for the detailed explanations and the links. Comments like yours make HN the Internet gem it is!