9 ms·

Personally, when I hear that a woman (or man) with kids is running a startup, I think "that kid isn't going to have the full attention of that parent..." Espec

• markdown 6y ago
  > Personally, when I hear that a woman (or man) with kids is running a startup, I think "that kid isn't going to have the full attention of that parent. So like, almost every startup ever.
  • umvi 6y ago
    I was under the impression that a lot of startups are run by single people with time to burn "toiling upward in the night" I recently read "Masters of Doom" because someone here recommended it, and both id software and ion storm were mainly run by single people working hellish 80-120 hour weeks. Technically John Romero had kids, but... early on in his startup he divorced in order to free up more time for making games.
    • markdown 6y ago
      I guess it depends on how you define a startup. Many of the "cool" startups that make the tech press are made by kids fresh out of college, but IMO these are only a tiny fraction of actual startups created in the world every year.
      • jmchuster 6y ago
        I would think most people here on HN subscribe to Paul Graham's definition, which is exponential growth.
• tptacek 6y ago
  You write "(or man)", but of course, it's not, really. My wife was asked in multiple interviews about her children and how she planned to care for them while working full-time. I've never even heard of a man being asked that. At any rate, someone else's child care arrangements are absolutely none of your business, and this isn't a reasonable point to make on this thread.
  • geebee 6y ago
    I don't think they're supposed to ask about that - I believe that kind of question can be legally actionable. You're probably correct that employers assume these things won't be an issue for men - though I did read a paper (sorry no cite) that found employers are unusually punitive toward the relatively small number men who scale back for child care. It's the flip side of the assumption they won't be taking time off - when they do, employers treat it as a misrepresentation of intent.
    • victoriasun 6y ago
      It is legally actionable but it is unfortunately very difficult to actually prosecute. Lawyers are not really incentivized to take on discrimination cases as they are generally difficult to prove and don't pay out well. As an aside, during my very first job as a junior (female, 21) engineer, an executive told me, unprompted, that I would end my career by the age of 30 to focus on having children. Ironically enough, he was not entirely wrong; I've been quite lucky to have a successful career in corporate settings, but after a constant barrage of comments like these, being inappropriately approached (read: hit on) by both co-workers and managers, and twice now inappropriately touched by co-workers who received no punishment for their behavior (in fact, I was asked to keep said sexual harassment quiet "for the good of the team"), I am indeed leaving these corporate settings to pursue a path on my own. So his prediction came true, although not for the reason he predicted :)
      • geebee 6y ago
        Silicon Valley doesn’t really like people with family obligations. In interviews in my 30s, I found myself hiding the fact that I had children. Once a recruiter, trying to lure me away from a stable company for a startup, told me that I better take my risks while I still could, before I had children (I had 2). I grew up in SF and I’m pushing 50. The population of children in SF has dropped to a little more that half of what it was when I was born. That’s an urban trend overall, but SF is an especially glaring example. What can I say? Kids are expensive and don’t pay rent, and parents have to compete for housing with people who Factor in income from renting out that “spare” bedroom on Airbnb. Tech in the Bay Area would really rather you didn’t have kids.
• vmception 6y ago
  ehhhh I don't think thats a distinction that you can reserve for people running startups and being effective at an executive role at a startup or big company doesn't mean a child has to be neglected sure thats what happens a lot, but its not intrinsically tied together I do find it interesting that the patches to this in some developed countries - regarding paid and extended paternal leave (1 to 3 years, job guaranteed) - are incompatible with corporate growth, and those countries are specifically not known for being able to "move fast and break things". So although I would offer those patches for the American market, the rebuttals are too predictable.
• smabie 6y ago
  Kids don't actually demand that much time. It just turns out a lot of (Western) people spend tons of time with their kids, so we think they demand a lot of time. For example, I used to live in Africa and in the town where I lived, kids 2 and older were expected to look out after themselves. Regularly, a 4-year old would be asked to go get some bread from the store, or even cigarettes and beer. I think this is natural, and helps the kids develop and learn resilience. Kids will be fine on their own, and I don't think it's a problem for both parents to work for full-time, on a start-up or otherwise. Society should have no problem with a 6 year old playing alone in a park, or walking to school, or whatever. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_enough_parent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_enough_parent
  • thelittlenag 6y ago
    I wish I had more up votes to give.
  • the_af 6y ago
    Do you have kids? Are you speaking from experience? A kid of 2 is not able to look after him/herself. Kids that young need lots of attention. I am speaking from experience, by the way.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      I have kids. Including a one and a half year old. He wants a lot of attention, and he gets it, especially in these covid times. But wanting attention and needing it are different things.
      • the_af 6y ago
        It's both. When I hear that "kids don't demand that much attention" it feels terribly insulting, plus it opens the door for terrible job practices, demanding from parents and telling them "don't use your kids as an excuse, they don't actually demand too much". The notion that a 2 year old can take care of him/herself is ridiculous. No-one who has a 2 year old will actually say that. That's why I asked the parent poster (and they didn't reply...) This, for example, is deeply problematic: > Kids will be fine on their own, and I don't think it's a problem for both parents to work for full-time, on a start-up or otherwise. This flies in the face of evidence, plus it opens the door for terrible demands to be asked of employees who are parents.
• britr 6y ago
  How can you judge her capability as a mother based only on extrapolating from what she actually said?
• Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Not even with people running a startup; in my country there's a LOT of parents who have kids, take up their parental leave (and then some if possible) but then go back to work, leaving their kids with the grandparents or day care. Part of that is because living here (esp. the big cities) is too expensive, but the other part is that people like their careers, they don't want to have to give that up to raise a family. Not all families, etc, but there's quite a few that do. And the government is actually supporting it, subsidizing daycare for lower incomes. I'm not judging it; I wouldn't want to switch careers to become a full-time parent, I don't like kids. OTOH, if my girlfriend were to get a well paying job and I had the opportunity to work less to pursue other things, I'd probably take it.
• galoisgirl 6y ago
  > I personally think it's okay to "be less dedicated" to work in order to spend more time with kids (for both mothers and fathers). Thanks for your permission? Those people have clocks and can count to 60, you know? They have thought about it. They have agonized about it. They feared and/or regretted missing their child's first steps. They owe you no explanation.