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I wonder if any of the scientist or commenters in this thread have ever lived in a bad hood. The hoods require more and better policing, the worst offenders, wh

I wonder if any of the scientist or commenters in this thread have ever lived in a bad hood. The hoods require more and better policing, the worst offenders, who kill orders of magnitude more people are criminal gangs. You remove police - you'll get spike in homicides.

nerdponx 6y ago
Relatively few people are opposed to the idea of police. A much larger number of people are opposed to policing in its current form in the USA.
kingkawn 6y ago
Does it occur that the gangs are an attempt from within consistently brutalized communities to mirror their brutalizers
- beervirus 6y ago
  Nothing is anyone's fault, huh. He's not a murderer--he's just brutalized and oppressed.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  It has little to do with their brutalizers, it is the nature of physical power and corruption. Many times throughout history gangs form for self protection in absense of a functioning authority. Regardless they inevitably get involved in a racket of some sort or assert their claim to some sort of territory and become just another band of violent thugs out for themselves and a scourge on their host community. The remotely closest thing to a gang that hasn't progressed to that probably isn't like that are the Guardian Angels safety patrols. Being brutalized is neither neccessary nor sufficent, although it may make them more likely. If the "configuration" arises essentially they will go down that path.
greenhatglack 6y ago
I guarantee many of the privileged predominantly white ACAB crowd never lived in areas where their own mom had a higher than average risk of being sexually assaulted or brutally beaten for fun whilst being on public transport during evenings. Their heads can’t fathom such notions and it’s hard for them to comprehend the idea of different opinion. I’ve taking a different approach IRL of not showing my cards on the subject and just agreeing with them. The first chance I get, I will accuse them of racism and homophobia to HR so they can have some of their own medicine. It’s the only way they learn.
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
  The funny thing is that minorities who live in these "hellscapes" also promote the ACAB mantra. So what's wrong with them?
  - spoopyskelly 6y ago
    They are criminals.
    - greenhatglack 6y ago
      No, they're just brainwashed. Their misery is by design to create voting cattle.
downerending 6y ago
No doubt, and at least anecdotally, that seems to be happening in real time. As to the larger question, I'm having a very hard time seeing adding knowledge and science as a bad thing. Without those, any proposed improvement to policing (including abuse) is simply flailing guesswork.
fearingreprisal 6y ago
I grew up in a bad neighborhood and was the victim of violence on multiple occasions. I have what the academics call "lived experience". It wasn't any kind of weird fluke, it was exactly the kind of violence you would expect from this kind of area: Being attacked by groups of improverished youths, looking to rob and assault people for money and enjoyment. The things these privileged ACAB protesters believe are absolute nonsense. These kids were not out there assaulting people because the system had let them fall through the cracks. These were individuals who had purposefully eluded ever integrating themselves in the system. The gangs would act in their own self interest to the fullest extent until the police stopped them.
- lovehashbrowns 6y ago
  So what is your response when it's coming from someone that did live in a bad neighborhood,like me? I grew up on the south side of Chicago, around the Back of the Yards area which was particularly bad in the 90s. I've been robbed at gun point and had to live avoiding alleys, avoid wearing certain colors of clothing, have had to grow up seeing dried blood on my walks to elementary school, etc. And I still say ACAB and support defunding the police. In your view, these are people that don't wish to integrate themselves, and in my view, these are people that never had much of a chance to begin with. The public schools I went to were so underfunded, and I am lucky that I took a different path than the one of least resistance. A lot of the people I grew up with that joined gangs were abused as kids, had learning disabilities, grew up with violence, didn't have a proper learning environment, didn't have after-school programs to go to when they wanted to avoid violence and abuse at home, etc. I'd rather take money from police departments and funnel it to actually giving those kids a chance.
  - bagacrap 6y ago
    is it (a)you don't think more people would be robbed at gunpoint without a police force around, or (b) you don't think it's a big deal to get robbed at gunpoint
    - lovehashbrowns 6y ago
bryal 6y ago
Yeah, and keep underfunding preventive measures like improved schooling. Who cares if the youth of the hood keep growing up to be offenders -- we can just arrest/kill them with the police! Throwing police at the problem is only putting a band-aid on the symptoms, but ignoring the root cause. Violence will only beget more violence in the long run.

nerdponx 6y ago

Relatively few people are opposed to the idea of police. A much larger number of people are opposed to policing in its current form in the USA.

kingkawn 6y ago

Does it occur that the gangs are an attempt from within consistently brutalized communities to mirror their brutalizers

beervirus 6y ago
Nothing is anyone's fault, huh. He's not a murderer--he's just brutalized and oppressed.
Nasrudith 6y ago
It has little to do with their brutalizers, it is the nature of physical power and corruption. Many times throughout history gangs form for self protection in absense of a functioning authority. Regardless they inevitably get involved in a racket of some sort or assert their claim to some sort of territory and become just another band of violent thugs out for themselves and a scourge on their host community. The remotely closest thing to a gang that hasn't progressed to that probably isn't like that are the Guardian Angels safety patrols. Being brutalized is neither neccessary nor sufficent, although it may make them more likely. If the "configuration" arises essentially they will go down that path.

greenhatglack 6y ago

I guarantee many of the privileged predominantly white ACAB crowd never lived in areas where their own mom had a higher than average risk of being sexually assaulted or brutally beaten for fun whilst being on public transport during evenings. Their heads can’t fathom such notions and it’s hard for them to comprehend the idea of different opinion. I’ve taking a different approach IRL of not showing my cards on the subject and just agreeing with them. The first chance I get, I will accuse them of racism and homophobia to HR so they can have some of their own medicine. It’s the only way they learn.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
The funny thing is that minorities who live in these "hellscapes" also promote the ACAB mantra. So what's wrong with them?
- spoopyskelly 6y ago
  They are criminals.
  - greenhatglack 6y ago
    No, they're just brainwashed. Their misery is by design to create voting cattle.

downerending 6y ago

No doubt, and at least anecdotally, that seems to be happening in real time. As to the larger question, I'm having a very hard time seeing adding knowledge and science as a bad thing. Without those, any proposed improvement to policing (including abuse) is simply flailing guesswork.

fearingreprisal 6y ago

I grew up in a bad neighborhood and was the victim of violence on multiple occasions. I have what the academics call "lived experience". It wasn't any kind of weird fluke, it was exactly the kind of violence you would expect from this kind of area: Being attacked by groups of improverished youths, looking to rob and assault people for money and enjoyment. The things these privileged ACAB protesters believe are absolute nonsense. These kids were not out there assaulting people because the system had let them fall through the cracks. These were individuals who had purposefully eluded ever integrating themselves in the system. The gangs would act in their own self interest to the fullest extent until the police stopped them.

lovehashbrowns 6y ago
So what is your response when it's coming from someone that did live in a bad neighborhood,like me? I grew up on the south side of Chicago, around the Back of the Yards area which was particularly bad in the 90s. I've been robbed at gun point and had to live avoiding alleys, avoid wearing certain colors of clothing, have had to grow up seeing dried blood on my walks to elementary school, etc. And I still say ACAB and support defunding the police. In your view, these are people that don't wish to integrate themselves, and in my view, these are people that never had much of a chance to begin with. The public schools I went to were so underfunded, and I am lucky that I took a different path than the one of least resistance. A lot of the people I grew up with that joined gangs were abused as kids, had learning disabilities, grew up with violence, didn't have a proper learning environment, didn't have after-school programs to go to when they wanted to avoid violence and abuse at home, etc. I'd rather take money from police departments and funnel it to actually giving those kids a chance.
- bagacrap 6y ago
  is it (a)you don't think more people would be robbed at gunpoint without a police force around, or (b) you don't think it's a big deal to get robbed at gunpoint
  - lovehashbrowns 6y ago

bryal 6y ago

Yeah, and keep underfunding preventive measures like improved schooling. Who cares if the youth of the hood keep growing up to be offenders -- we can just arrest/kill them with the police! Throwing police at the problem is only putting a band-aid on the symptoms, but ignoring the root cause. Violence will only beget more violence in the long run.