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The 'proactive' is just driving or walking around a neighborhood. It isn't (necessarily) doing things like stop and frisk or just going around accosting random

The 'proactive' is just driving or walking around a neighborhood. It isn't (necessarily) doing things like stop and frisk or just going around accosting random people on the street.

sudosysgen 6y ago
It's not just driving or walking around a neighbourhood, it's doing your best to find the maximum amount of crime. Otherwise, you wouldn't need mathematical models in order to optimize the "efficacity" of the operation. The vast majority of crime where police should be involved are crimes where the victim can call the police later. For those that don't fit this criteria, either police patrols are already ineffective (targeted assassinations, for example), or the police isn't being called because the victim thinks it will make the situation worse. Which in many cases is true, and I think fixing that problem would be a good step to take.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  I guess I don't really understand what is generally wrong with a police officer looking for a crime being committed in public and then stopping it?
  - kingkawn 6y ago
    We create what we look for
    - DenisM 6y ago
      Are doctors creating cancer and high cholesterol?
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        Doctors actually fix cancer and high cholesterol, police simply takes the criminals away but does not fix crime. It's an approach to crime about as sophisticated and effective as blood-letting and amputations - works sometimes, makes everything worse when that's all you use.
        DenisM 6y ago
        How do you know that removing criminals away does not reduce crime?
- austincheney 6y ago
  In the town where I grew up the most common non-traffic emergency calls were calls of injury of which the most serious were cardiac distress. The police used mathematical models to position two SUV patrols at opposite sides of town where each contained some manner electric cardio medical device for rapid response to heart attacks.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Sure, this is also done in my city. Except that isn't the responsibility of police, but that of the EMS service/paramedics/firefighters. If the police are doing that in your town I also think that's problematic, because many people won't call if they know the police are going to come for injuries.
    - austincheney 6y ago
      > because many people won't call if they know the police are going to come for injuries. That is not what occurred in practice and there is no data to suggest this would ever be a probable outcome. At any rate people don’t have a choice on who responds if the call is to 911.
      - heavyset_go 6y ago
        > there is no data to suggest this would ever be a probable outcome The data behind 911 Good Samaritan laws[1] that protect people from being arrested when they call in overdoses would like to have a word with you. [1] https://www.shatterproof.org/advocacy/state-by-state-information/good-samaritan-laws https://www.shatterproof.org/advocacy/state-by-state-informa...
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        In my city if there is a 911 call for a medical emergency you will get the firefighters or the ambulance faster, and depending on the emergency might not get police at all. In any case, if you are giving anyone defibrillators and locating them to minimize response time to cardiac incidents, it would be absurd to give it to the police.

The 'proactive' is just driving or walking around a neighborhood. It isn't (necessarily) doing things like stop and frisk or just going around accosting random people on the street.

sudosysgen 6y ago

It's not just driving or walking around a neighbourhood, it's doing your best to find the maximum amount of crime. Otherwise, you wouldn't need mathematical models in order to optimize the "efficacity" of the operation. The vast majority of crime where police should be involved are crimes where the victim can call the police later. For those that don't fit this criteria, either police patrols are already ineffective (targeted assassinations, for example), or the police isn't being called because the victim thinks it will make the situation worse. Which in many cases is true, and I think fixing that problem would be a good step to take.

oh_sigh 6y ago
I guess I don't really understand what is generally wrong with a police officer looking for a crime being committed in public and then stopping it?
- kingkawn 6y ago
  We create what we look for
  - DenisM 6y ago
    Are doctors creating cancer and high cholesterol?
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      Doctors actually fix cancer and high cholesterol, police simply takes the criminals away but does not fix crime. It's an approach to crime about as sophisticated and effective as blood-letting and amputations - works sometimes, makes everything worse when that's all you use.
      - DenisM 6y ago
        How do you know that removing criminals away does not reduce crime?
austincheney 6y ago
In the town where I grew up the most common non-traffic emergency calls were calls of injury of which the most serious were cardiac distress. The police used mathematical models to position two SUV patrols at opposite sides of town where each contained some manner electric cardio medical device for rapid response to heart attacks.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Sure, this is also done in my city. Except that isn't the responsibility of police, but that of the EMS service/paramedics/firefighters. If the police are doing that in your town I also think that's problematic, because many people won't call if they know the police are going to come for injuries.
  - austincheney 6y ago
    > because many people won't call if they know the police are going to come for injuries. That is not what occurred in practice and there is no data to suggest this would ever be a probable outcome. At any rate people don’t have a choice on who responds if the call is to 911.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      > there is no data to suggest this would ever be a probable outcome The data behind 911 Good Samaritan laws[1] that protect people from being arrested when they call in overdoses would like to have a word with you. [1] https://www.shatterproof.org/advocacy/state-by-state-information/good-samaritan-laws https://www.shatterproof.org/advocacy/state-by-state-informa...
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      In my city if there is a 911 call for a medical emergency you will get the firefighters or the ambulance faster, and depending on the emergency might not get police at all. In any case, if you are giving anyone defibrillators and locating them to minimize response time to cardiac incidents, it would be absurd to give it to the police.