5 ms·

This is the part that gets me, too. Here's a summary I put together of where the US stands on the latest "reopen" benchmarks: https://docs.google.com/spreadshe

This is the part that gets me, too. Here's a summary I put together of where the US stands on the latest "reopen" benchmarks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQSSp19amBFUtHvw_u1vZCjuz7-ezC3YZYr6qE72qHvbAi8cXoQE54oc1tbvHqWi-lMjH_m8lrbAAfM/pubhtml?gid=2022544454 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQSSp19amBFU... It varies region to region. I'm in Orange County, CA. (You may remember us from such recent news events as...) This was Huntington Beach weekend before last (probably much the same this weekend, too): https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusOC/comments/h9max3/ny_times_photo_of_huntington_beach_this_weekend/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusOC/comments/h9max3/ny_ti... This was a photo posted to Reddit this past weekend: https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/hczes1/pirozzis_is_on_the_shit_list_packed_in_like/ https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/hczes1/pirozz...

devalgo 6y ago
It's definitely concerning how people are acting but that being said I think the initial research is showing that outdoor spread during the day is very unlikely. UV light seems to be devastating to Covid and Vitamin D seems to be protective. So a crowded beach is probably not all that bad. Packed bars and restaurants? That's a near worst case scenario
- standardUser 6y ago
  I have been pro-lockdowns and have not indulged in any conspiratorial nonsense. But at a certain point, if states and localities don't accept the mounting evidence that outdoor transmission is not a significant threat, it will start to feel a little tyrannical.
  - devalgo 6y ago
    It's probably a question of awareness. How many of these people are reading e.g arxiv preprints to see this kind of research in the first place? There's also a rebound/face saving effect: if the CDC, State Health Officials, etc. got it wrong at first why should we believe them about anything? I just really doubt there are secret totalitarian Mayors and Governors out there intentionally locking people in their homes despite all evidence. Given politicians obsession with reelection and the unpopularity of these lockdowns it doesn't make sense they would do it for no reason and basically guarantee they lose their next election.
    - camelCaseOfBeer 6y ago
      When someone is rewarded with attention for a social position, it tends to polarize their views. The politicization of Covid opinion shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. There's a strong self congratulatory component to alarmist opinions. A restaurant re-opened in my city recently and they posted a bunch of ads proclaiming they're, "opening responsibly" picturing their servers wearing masks. Public perception being the key point of consideration, not necessarily the efficacy of forcing laborers to hide their faces behind spit covered masks. The attitude in general seems to be, "post a sign blaming people for Covid-19 next to the door, some sanitizer, aaaand we're done." Opposed to something like propping the door and ensuring customers don't all touch the same door knob, for example.
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  I think the outside is less dangerous not because of UV, but because a far smaller percentage of the air you breath in was breathed out by someone else in the last 15 minutes.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  This whole thing is like a giant self-destructive part of the population coming together. There's ideological based reasoning (masks are for libs, somehow), it reduces my freedom (cause I have the right to die if I want). But you are making a choice for other people by exposing yourself. It's hard not to see this as the decadent end of a powerful empire (sound like the most famous case), where the people just want to party and they don't care that it will be killing them and greatly reducing their future prospects and their descendants also. They have lost trust in the institutions around them. Let's just go ahead and break up and let the west coast join Canada already.
larntz 6y ago
I am in south-ish (north palm beach) Florida and went to the beach the past few weekends. Fortunately it was nowhere near has busy as that picture. We haven't had much issue finding a spot with enough space to feel socially distanced. We also went to Longhorn for dinner yesterday and they had everyone pretty spaced out (every other booth, no seating at center tables). All the restaurant employees were wearing masks. I'm not sure we were at more risk than getting takeout. It has been really great mentally to go to the beach and have dinner outside the house. I am trying to keep our distance and not expose ourselves or others to anything unnecessary... we would have definitely left the beach and/or the restaurant if it was anything like the pictures you posted. I guess my point is I feel like it's possible to go out and not be too risky. I don't think every area reopening is getting crazy.
- alsobrsp 6y ago
  Hello neighbor!
- op00to 6y ago
  You were in an enclosed area. Your risk of contracting Covid is astronomically higher indoors at a place where you remain for more than a few minutes.
  - rubidium 6y ago
    Where you remain for 15 minutes or more with 20 or more people.
    - ta17711771 6y ago
      Where you remain long enough for one person who is carrying to breathe enough viral load into your airspace.
      - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
        I remain stunned by the people who think they will not endanger themselves and others. I wish the OP diner in the restaurant would explain why they think this is safe? Let's assume he is a programmer or some kind of educated person who thinks basic science, math, etc works. Why would they think it's safe to go to a restaurant where it is an enclosed space.

devalgo 6y ago

It's definitely concerning how people are acting but that being said I think the initial research is showing that outdoor spread during the day is very unlikely. UV light seems to be devastating to Covid and Vitamin D seems to be protective. So a crowded beach is probably not all that bad. Packed bars and restaurants? That's a near worst case scenario

standardUser 6y ago
I have been pro-lockdowns and have not indulged in any conspiratorial nonsense. But at a certain point, if states and localities don't accept the mounting evidence that outdoor transmission is not a significant threat, it will start to feel a little tyrannical.
- devalgo 6y ago
  It's probably a question of awareness. How many of these people are reading e.g arxiv preprints to see this kind of research in the first place? There's also a rebound/face saving effect: if the CDC, State Health Officials, etc. got it wrong at first why should we believe them about anything? I just really doubt there are secret totalitarian Mayors and Governors out there intentionally locking people in their homes despite all evidence. Given politicians obsession with reelection and the unpopularity of these lockdowns it doesn't make sense they would do it for no reason and basically guarantee they lose their next election.
  - camelCaseOfBeer 6y ago
    When someone is rewarded with attention for a social position, it tends to polarize their views. The politicization of Covid opinion shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody. There's a strong self congratulatory component to alarmist opinions. A restaurant re-opened in my city recently and they posted a bunch of ads proclaiming they're, "opening responsibly" picturing their servers wearing masks. Public perception being the key point of consideration, not necessarily the efficacy of forcing laborers to hide their faces behind spit covered masks. The attitude in general seems to be, "post a sign blaming people for Covid-19 next to the door, some sanitizer, aaaand we're done." Opposed to something like propping the door and ensuring customers don't all touch the same door knob, for example.
JamesBarney 6y ago
I think the outside is less dangerous not because of UV, but because a far smaller percentage of the air you breath in was breathed out by someone else in the last 15 minutes.
NotSammyHagar 6y ago
This whole thing is like a giant self-destructive part of the population coming together. There's ideological based reasoning (masks are for libs, somehow), it reduces my freedom (cause I have the right to die if I want). But you are making a choice for other people by exposing yourself. It's hard not to see this as the decadent end of a powerful empire (sound like the most famous case), where the people just want to party and they don't care that it will be killing them and greatly reducing their future prospects and their descendants also. They have lost trust in the institutions around them. Let's just go ahead and break up and let the west coast join Canada already.

larntz 6y ago

I am in south-ish (north palm beach) Florida and went to the beach the past few weekends. Fortunately it was nowhere near has busy as that picture. We haven't had much issue finding a spot with enough space to feel socially distanced. We also went to Longhorn for dinner yesterday and they had everyone pretty spaced out (every other booth, no seating at center tables). All the restaurant employees were wearing masks. I'm not sure we were at more risk than getting takeout. It has been really great mentally to go to the beach and have dinner outside the house. I am trying to keep our distance and not expose ourselves or others to anything unnecessary... we would have definitely left the beach and/or the restaurant if it was anything like the pictures you posted. I guess my point is I feel like it's possible to go out and not be too risky. I don't think every area reopening is getting crazy.

alsobrsp 6y ago
Hello neighbor!
op00to 6y ago
You were in an enclosed area. Your risk of contracting Covid is astronomically higher indoors at a place where you remain for more than a few minutes.
- rubidium 6y ago
  Where you remain for 15 minutes or more with 20 or more people.
  - ta17711771 6y ago
    Where you remain long enough for one person who is carrying to breathe enough viral load into your airspace.
    - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
      I remain stunned by the people who think they will not endanger themselves and others. I wish the OP diner in the restaurant would explain why they think this is safe? Let's assume he is a programmer or some kind of educated person who thinks basic science, math, etc works. Why would they think it's safe to go to a restaurant where it is an enclosed space.