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I'm wondering if this is the release where OpenGL goes from deprecated to fully removed. Presumably Apple didn't want to write OpenGL drivers (full, not ES) fo

I'm wondering if this is the release where OpenGL goes from deprecated to fully removed. Presumably Apple didn't want to write OpenGL drivers (full, not ES) for their in-house GPUs.

AnonC 6y ago
Apple has been pushing Metal for a few years. I don’t think any additional effort will be spent on OpenGL.
schaefer 6y ago
Anyone know How this would impact webgl content running in safari? Presumably it's translated to metal calls from within Safari?
- lasagnaphil 6y ago
  Probably. WebGL is only a small subset of OpenGL, so I think it wouldn't be that hard to create a Metal translation layer for it. MoltenGL was already doing this (https://moltengl.com/moltengl/ https://moltengl.com/moltengl/)
- frou_dh 6y ago
  It's been known for a while that Safari/WebKit are integrating the same ANGLE abstraction layer that Chrome uses. That will bring WebGL 2.0 support also. But the progress on that getting anywhere near shipping has been extremely slow. Several years have passed.
WA9ACE 6y ago
I wonder how this will affect java minecraft on the mac. Does LWJGL have a Metal backend?
- Fej 6y ago
  It does not appear to have a Metal backend - just OpenGL and Vulkan. From what I can tell, commercial game devs treat Mac gaming as an edge case and mostly only the large engine devs care about Metal support (with exceptions, of course).
  - tamarok 6y ago
    It looks like Minecraft is already using Metal. LWJGL makes use of other low level APIs by means of BGFX, since version 3.1.0 (per release notes) and Metal is one of the current targets. Looking at a running 1.15 Minecraft instance I see it is using lwjgl 3.2.1 and there a link to "net.java.openjdk.cmd/com.apple.metal", when I do an lsof. Any further insight would be appreciated.
- tamarok 6y ago
  LWJGL does appear to support Metal via BGFX. I would be curious to see how to patch the library to use this. The other question I would have is how this behaves with shaders, such as BSL? Links: - https://github.com/LWJGL/lwjgl3/blob/master/doc/notes/3.1.0.md - https://github.com/bkaradzic/bgfx
pcwalton 6y ago
OpenGL is still supported. https://twitter.com/colincornaby/status/1275153748348682240 https://twitter.com/colincornaby/status/1275153748348682240 OpenGL drivers still basically have to be there because of WebGL on Safari. And if it's a derivative of the GPU on iOS devices, then the GL driver is mostly already written.

I'm wondering if this is the release where OpenGL goes from deprecated to fully removed. Presumably Apple didn't want to write OpenGL drivers (full, not ES) for their in-house GPUs.

AnonC 6y ago

Apple has been pushing Metal for a few years. I don’t think any additional effort will be spent on OpenGL.

schaefer 6y ago

Anyone know How this would impact webgl content running in safari? Presumably it's translated to metal calls from within Safari?

lasagnaphil 6y ago
Probably. WebGL is only a small subset of OpenGL, so I think it wouldn't be that hard to create a Metal translation layer for it. MoltenGL was already doing this (https://moltengl.com/moltengl/ https://moltengl.com/moltengl/)
frou_dh 6y ago
It's been known for a while that Safari/WebKit are integrating the same ANGLE abstraction layer that Chrome uses. That will bring WebGL 2.0 support also. But the progress on that getting anywhere near shipping has been extremely slow. Several years have passed.

WA9ACE 6y ago

I wonder how this will affect java minecraft on the mac. Does LWJGL have a Metal backend?

Fej 6y ago
It does not appear to have a Metal backend - just OpenGL and Vulkan. From what I can tell, commercial game devs treat Mac gaming as an edge case and mostly only the large engine devs care about Metal support (with exceptions, of course).
- tamarok 6y ago
  It looks like Minecraft is already using Metal. LWJGL makes use of other low level APIs by means of BGFX, since version 3.1.0 (per release notes) and Metal is one of the current targets. Looking at a running 1.15 Minecraft instance I see it is using lwjgl 3.2.1 and there a link to "net.java.openjdk.cmd/com.apple.metal", when I do an lsof. Any further insight would be appreciated.
tamarok 6y ago
LWJGL does appear to support Metal via BGFX. I would be curious to see how to patch the library to use this. The other question I would have is how this behaves with shaders, such as BSL? Links: - https://github.com/LWJGL/lwjgl3/blob/master/doc/notes/3.1.0.md - https://github.com/bkaradzic/bgfx

pcwalton 6y ago

OpenGL is still supported. https://twitter.com/colincornaby/status/1275153748348682240 https://twitter.com/colincornaby/status/1275153748348682240 OpenGL drivers still basically have to be there because of WebGL on Safari. And if it's a derivative of the GPU on iOS devices, then the GL driver is mostly already written.