4 ms·

I think your expectations for what emulation is capable of are set a bit high. The fact that it is able to emulate a game that's a few years old at decent frame

I think your expectations for what emulation is capable of are set a bit high. The fact that it is able to emulate a game that's a few years old at decent frame rate is more than acceptable. You didn't see Microsoft demoing games for their Surface on ARM systems at all and for good reason.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
I mean, if I had things my way they wouldn't be switching to ARM at all and emulation wouldn't be necessary, so I don't think it's wrong to be skeptical. > You didn't see Microsoft demoing games for their Surface on ARM systems at all and for good reason. Those were also lower-end computers with poor GPUs.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > Those were also lower-end computers with poor GPUs. Were you under the impression this $500 developers kit shipping with an iPad Pro CPU/ GPU is a high end computer? While it's a decent chip, it's essentially the same CPU as the prior generation iPad Pro with 1 additional core.
- messe 6y ago
  > Those were also lower-end computers with poor GPUs. You mean the Surface Pro X? It has similar price tiering to the iPad Pro whose SoC was used in these demos.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    ...ouch, okay, I just looked up the price of Surface Pro X, and it's $1,000. I forgot how much Microsoft was charging for that thing. Still, the Pro X has poor graphics. I'm going to assume that a dedicated GPU was being used for Tomb Raider—they would have said something otherwise.
    - wtallis 6y ago
      > I'm going to assume that a dedicated GPU was being used for Tomb Raider—they would have said something otherwise. They said exactly what SoC they were using, and it's not known to have spare PCIe lanes lying unused in existing products. Apple pretty much just demoed an x86 game running on an overclocked iPad Pro.
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        Interesting—are you expecting the Thunderbolt ports in the Developer Transition Kit not to work then? Since it's using a Mac Mini chassis.
        X-Istence 6y ago
        It's not like Apple can't change what connectors are available on the back of the mac Mini. The form factor may not have changed, but the ports available have in the past releases. Don't be surprised if there is no Thunderbolt 3 at all, but just USB-C.
        spoppy 6y ago
        It may be that by the time these things are ready for an actual release they can be USB4, which is USB-C + Thunderbolt technology, but no longer Intel exclusive.
        josephst18 6y ago
        Tech specs on the DTK webpage don’t mention Thunderbolt at all, just USB-C (2 ports) and USB-A (2 ports), plus a HDMI 2.0 port. Makes me wonder how the Pro Display used in the demos was being driven. DisplayPort with USB-C alternate mode?
        dstaley 6y ago
        It's entirely possible the display was only running at 4K instead of the full, native resolution.
sudosysgen 6y ago
I can emulate a PS3 on my computer with better graphics at higher framerates, including GPU emulation. It's not impressive at all.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Shadow of the Tomb Raider is a PS4/XB1 game, not a PS360 game. --- Edit 2: Please disregard my first edit, below—I was right the first time, then I got the games mixed up. Edit 1: Oh wait, I forgot, SotTR actually did have an Xbox 360 port! It was one of the last big titles to have one. I think what they showed on screen looked better than the 360 version though, although it's admittedly hard to tell on a stream.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Not on low settings at fake 1080p with an inconsistent framerate, it isn't. It's PS4 level at 60fps on high. Whereas I can emulate 4k60fps PS3 games with improved textures.
  - terramex 6y ago
    > SotTR actually did have an Xbox 360 port! It did not, previous game in series (Rise of the Tomb Raider) did have but Shadow(...) was released only on current-gen consoles.
- turtlebits 6y ago
  When its running on a iPad pro chip? It's pretty impressive., considering Microsoft x86 emulation on the Surface pro X is abysmal.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Is the target to match the performance of ten year old hardware? Then sure, that's matched. But it's not impressive. AMD FX CPUs have better performance than that, by a mile.
    - 6y ago

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

I mean, if I had things my way they wouldn't be switching to ARM at all and emulation wouldn't be necessary, so I don't think it's wrong to be skeptical. > You didn't see Microsoft demoing games for their Surface on ARM systems at all and for good reason. Those were also lower-end computers with poor GPUs.

ogre_codes 6y ago
> Those were also lower-end computers with poor GPUs. Were you under the impression this $500 developers kit shipping with an iPad Pro CPU/ GPU is a high end computer? While it's a decent chip, it's essentially the same CPU as the prior generation iPad Pro with 1 additional core.
messe 6y ago
> Those were also lower-end computers with poor GPUs. You mean the Surface Pro X? It has similar price tiering to the iPad Pro whose SoC was used in these demos.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  ...ouch, okay, I just looked up the price of Surface Pro X, and it's $1,000. I forgot how much Microsoft was charging for that thing. Still, the Pro X has poor graphics. I'm going to assume that a dedicated GPU was being used for Tomb Raider—they would have said something otherwise.
  - wtallis 6y ago
    > I'm going to assume that a dedicated GPU was being used for Tomb Raider—they would have said something otherwise. They said exactly what SoC they were using, and it's not known to have spare PCIe lanes lying unused in existing products. Apple pretty much just demoed an x86 game running on an overclocked iPad Pro.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      Interesting—are you expecting the Thunderbolt ports in the Developer Transition Kit not to work then? Since it's using a Mac Mini chassis.
      - X-Istence 6y ago
        It's not like Apple can't change what connectors are available on the back of the mac Mini. The form factor may not have changed, but the ports available have in the past releases. Don't be surprised if there is no Thunderbolt 3 at all, but just USB-C.
        spoppy 6y ago
        It may be that by the time these things are ready for an actual release they can be USB4, which is USB-C + Thunderbolt technology, but no longer Intel exclusive.
      - josephst18 6y ago
        Tech specs on the DTK webpage don’t mention Thunderbolt at all, just USB-C (2 ports) and USB-A (2 ports), plus a HDMI 2.0 port. Makes me wonder how the Pro Display used in the demos was being driven. DisplayPort with USB-C alternate mode?
        dstaley 6y ago
        It's entirely possible the display was only running at 4K instead of the full, native resolution.

sudosysgen 6y ago

I can emulate a PS3 on my computer with better graphics at higher framerates, including GPU emulation. It's not impressive at all.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Shadow of the Tomb Raider is a PS4/XB1 game, not a PS360 game. --- Edit 2: Please disregard my first edit, below—I was right the first time, then I got the games mixed up. Edit 1: Oh wait, I forgot, SotTR actually did have an Xbox 360 port! It was one of the last big titles to have one. I think what they showed on screen looked better than the 360 version though, although it's admittedly hard to tell on a stream.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Not on low settings at fake 1080p with an inconsistent framerate, it isn't. It's PS4 level at 60fps on high. Whereas I can emulate 4k60fps PS3 games with improved textures.
- terramex 6y ago
  > SotTR actually did have an Xbox 360 port! It did not, previous game in series (Rise of the Tomb Raider) did have but Shadow(...) was released only on current-gen consoles.
turtlebits 6y ago
When its running on a iPad pro chip? It's pretty impressive., considering Microsoft x86 emulation on the Surface pro X is abysmal.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Is the target to match the performance of ten year old hardware? Then sure, that's matched. But it's not impressive. AMD FX CPUs have better performance than that, by a mile.
  - 6y ago