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Facebook is also making money off of you by showing you ads. It's a question of how much is enough. Facebook is charging nothing, sure, but what if the value th

Facebook is also making money off of you by showing you ads. It's a question of how much is enough. Facebook is charging nothing, sure, but what if the value they take from us (our data, our ad attention+clicks) is more valuable than the value they give us (a free social media)?

reverend_gonzo 6y ago
Well if what they gave us was more valuable than what they took, they wouldn’t be a very profitable company, would it?
- beojan 6y ago
  The value of what they provide isn't necessarily it's cost. That's the whole reason we trade. The value of a good is different to different people. If a book is worth £5 to me, and £1 to you, then if I give you £2.50 for the book we've both gained more than we've lost.
- gnulinux 6y ago
  No the value is decided at the moment of transaction, so that's how companies can accumulate value over transactions that are deemed "fair" by both parties. You can decide go give someone $10 for bunch of apple, and the seller can accumulate value from this. The problem here is that one side of the trade does not fully know the value they provide. When you give $10 for an apple, you know exactly what you give and what you get. When you give $0+"your data"+"your ad view/clicks" for "free Facebook service" it's really really unclear what it is you're giving to Facebook and what it is Facebook is giving you.
- devalgo 6y ago
  Is anyone really going to weep for Zuck if he drops down to merely a millionaire instead of a billionaire? I certainly won't...
- seph-reed 6y ago
  Maybe the world is starting to believe that "it was profitable" is not always a defensible position? Perhaps an age of consumption is passing towards an age of ethics. Time will show.
bilal4hmed 6y ago
my friend got a kidney transplant because they found a donor off facebook. Random stranger saw his plea and decided to help. Put a value on that
- waon 6y ago
  It's already bad enough that the surveillance economy is threatening our civil liberties in more ways than one. It's outright dystopian when you need to organize a social media campaign to get medical treatment. Considering the sheer number of people who desperately need medical help, the chances of succeeding is very very low.
  - spaced-out 6y ago
    >It's outright dystopian when you need to organize a social media campaign to get medical treatment. The above comment wasn't an example of that, though. His friend was getting medical treatment, the issue is that you can't just buy a kidney (at least not in the US), you need to find a donor.
    - bilal4hmed 6y ago
      exactly, even in a situation where medical is all paid for you still have to find a donor yourself. There are countries where you can get a donor via "alternative" means but when going by the book, finding a donor is on you. I cant think of any other way he could have gotten exposure without having to go on tv, radio, public areas and making his case. That power of facebook ( and other social media is undeniable ) Even Wajahat Ali on CNN, who has such a big audience, found a donor off Twitter. Not everyone has the ability to reach out to Anderson Cooper and ask for help. For every evil thing Facebook has done, there are stories like this. Having my friend alive, his family seeing him everyday is well worth it.
      - waon 6y ago
        The fact that you need public exposure to find a donor is the problem, not the solution. Going to social media doesn't guarantee that you'll be able to find a donor. Worse, you could be targeted by online scammers and trolls, which is the last thing you want in a difficult situation.
tootie 6y ago
If there is a nationwide push to disincentive all rent-seeking then I'd be all for it. Google selling customer behavior data seems like it's far less deleterious to society than running your business with a goal of generating short-term investor value.
manigandham 6y ago
That’s called profitability.
tguedes 6y ago
That's the definition of a profitable business.
Nasrudith 6y ago
Really asking for exact equal value to an exchange is in itself isn't just /a/ fallacy but an entire stack of them. It implicitly assumes a universal equal value when the utility and demand differ greatly based upon circumstances including marginal utility. One pair of boots is worth more to someone without them than someone who has eight comparable ones. Even if such exact trades could be found there is no incentive to provide them without it functioning as a loss leader of some sort.

reverend_gonzo 6y ago

Well if what they gave us was more valuable than what they took, they wouldn’t be a very profitable company, would it?

beojan 6y ago
The value of what they provide isn't necessarily it's cost. That's the whole reason we trade. The value of a good is different to different people. If a book is worth £5 to me, and £1 to you, then if I give you £2.50 for the book we've both gained more than we've lost.
gnulinux 6y ago
No the value is decided at the moment of transaction, so that's how companies can accumulate value over transactions that are deemed "fair" by both parties. You can decide go give someone $10 for bunch of apple, and the seller can accumulate value from this. The problem here is that one side of the trade does not fully know the value they provide. When you give $10 for an apple, you know exactly what you give and what you get. When you give $0+"your data"+"your ad view/clicks" for "free Facebook service" it's really really unclear what it is you're giving to Facebook and what it is Facebook is giving you.
devalgo 6y ago
Is anyone really going to weep for Zuck if he drops down to merely a millionaire instead of a billionaire? I certainly won't...
seph-reed 6y ago
Maybe the world is starting to believe that "it was profitable" is not always a defensible position? Perhaps an age of consumption is passing towards an age of ethics. Time will show.

bilal4hmed 6y ago

my friend got a kidney transplant because they found a donor off facebook. Random stranger saw his plea and decided to help. Put a value on that

waon 6y ago
It's already bad enough that the surveillance economy is threatening our civil liberties in more ways than one. It's outright dystopian when you need to organize a social media campaign to get medical treatment. Considering the sheer number of people who desperately need medical help, the chances of succeeding is very very low.
- spaced-out 6y ago
  >It's outright dystopian when you need to organize a social media campaign to get medical treatment. The above comment wasn't an example of that, though. His friend was getting medical treatment, the issue is that you can't just buy a kidney (at least not in the US), you need to find a donor.
  - bilal4hmed 6y ago
    exactly, even in a situation where medical is all paid for you still have to find a donor yourself. There are countries where you can get a donor via "alternative" means but when going by the book, finding a donor is on you. I cant think of any other way he could have gotten exposure without having to go on tv, radio, public areas and making his case. That power of facebook ( and other social media is undeniable ) Even Wajahat Ali on CNN, who has such a big audience, found a donor off Twitter. Not everyone has the ability to reach out to Anderson Cooper and ask for help. For every evil thing Facebook has done, there are stories like this. Having my friend alive, his family seeing him everyday is well worth it.
    - waon 6y ago
      The fact that you need public exposure to find a donor is the problem, not the solution. Going to social media doesn't guarantee that you'll be able to find a donor. Worse, you could be targeted by online scammers and trolls, which is the last thing you want in a difficult situation.

tootie 6y ago

If there is a nationwide push to disincentive all rent-seeking then I'd be all for it. Google selling customer behavior data seems like it's far less deleterious to society than running your business with a goal of generating short-term investor value.

manigandham 6y ago

That’s called profitability.

tguedes 6y ago

That's the definition of a profitable business.

Nasrudith 6y ago

Really asking for exact equal value to an exchange is in itself isn't just /a/ fallacy but an entire stack of them. It implicitly assumes a universal equal value when the utility and demand differ greatly based upon circumstances including marginal utility. One pair of boots is worth more to someone without them than someone who has eight comparable ones. Even if such exact trades could be found there is no incentive to provide them without it functioning as a loss leader of some sort.