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Like most people today, I attempted to get into the game a few dozen times until I finally was able to get past the first level "my own way" that didn't rely on

Like most people today, I attempted to get into the game a few dozen times until I finally was able to get past the first level "my own way" that didn't rely on the really finicky stealth mechanics (specifically using a GEP gun to destroy the robot, then walking through the front door). The rest of the game is an absolute marvel of design. Even for a modern game the level design and depth of the story is remarkable. The game doesn't even look half bad if you install modern texture packs. It's a shame that the themes of the original were dumbed down significantly in the sequel. I started another play through recently exactly for this reason: > Smith: Deus Ex and Dishonored both involve a plague, and they both involve powerful, corrupt elites turning the disenfranchised against each other. When some states discouraged the wearing of masks or sheltering in place, somebody inevitably linked me the opening cinematic. ‘Why contain it? Let the bodies pile up in the streets’.

FakeRemore 6y ago
> really finicky Is it finicky? The stealth system is very basic and based on line-of-sight and sound (for human enemies). As long as you aren't running, it's actually incredibly trivial to stealth through levels without being seen. Even the bots aren't really a problem, since they have static patrol paths and limited line of sight.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  yeah I was surprised by this comment as well. imo, deus ex has one of the better implementations of stealth mechanics (certainly better than recent games like far cry). maybe it was bugged for GP?
- akhilcacharya 6y ago
  Its really that I'm just more used to modern stealth mechanics that handhold the player more. It's not my style of play in general.
  - FakeRemore 6y ago
    It's more of a trial and error kind of play. It really helps to quick save/quick load a lot to figure out what you can get away with.
  - whoopdedo 6y ago
    There's a generation gap here. The information density in current game UIs is high with status indicators, aiming aids, location markers, objective lists. Players expect the game to be a DM giving them lots hints on how to proceed through the game. At the time Deus Ex was made one of the talking points was realism. Players wanted to experience the game as a simulation. The hand-holding that's expected today was frowned upon as breaking the immersion. The article briefly touches on this debate between realism vs playability with regards to level design.
eyerony 6y ago
I think it wasn’t until my sixth or seventh play through that I finally felt like I’d found everything in that game. There’s just so much in it, and it’s content to let you miss most of it if you want. IIRC there are a three or so main routes through that first level (in the front, through the tunnel, climb the side), plus a couple optional side-areas.
- akhilcacharya 6y ago
  It was this conversation [0] that convinced me the game was something special (albeit poorly aged today!) Also in Hong Kong (and a spoiler) was this way of completing an objective that I didn't realize was possible until I saw it on YouTube [1]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKF0IYwhrjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKF0IYwhrjk [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc
  - clarry 6y ago
    In that second video, he jumps to Jock's apartment. That one took me years to discover. Same for the collapsed tunnel accessible via the HK canals.. wow, that one is so well hidden.
  - FakeRemore 6y ago
    I always figured the bartender was just another philosophy or sociology or political science major who couldn't find a better job. Which I'd say is also a relevant modern issue. I know plenty of college students and grads working shit jobs.
411111111111111 6y ago
I played it so many times around 2000... Fun fact about stealth mechanic rewards in the original: they don't vanish if you did the offensive approach! You could get the most xp by first killing everyone and then run around through tunnels and obstacles to get the other half of the xp I remember the escape from his brothers apartment in hells kitchen especially fondly because of that. First you slaughter everyone so your bro is safe for offensive reward, then you run through the level for the discovery rewards such as enabling the turret which shots the now non-existing enemies (the brother dies if you don't block him by standing in the way so risky to do earlier) and finally escape through the window. 3 routes and you get all the xp :)
- clarry 6y ago
  > then you run through the level for the discovery rewards such as enabling the turret which shots the now non-existing enemies Whaat. I must've played DX at least a couple dozen times and I never found a turret in the hotel?
  - 411111111111111 6y ago
    I think you had to go through elevator, then stealth into the reception and hack a terminal in the back. I might misremember though... It's been almost 20 years after all ;)
- hyperman1 6y ago
  No. First you hide in the closet while your brother goes on a slaughterfest because he can't die until the script says he does. When bro, the great pacifist, has killed absolutely everything in the hotel, walk out together with him through the front door, where he spontaneously drops dead for no reason at all because the script says he should. I did love that game
  - 411111111111111 6y ago
    Pretty sure he survived if you left through the window after killing everyone. You meet him again later iirc, though only very briefly.

FakeRemore 6y ago

> really finicky Is it finicky? The stealth system is very basic and based on line-of-sight and sound (for human enemies). As long as you aren't running, it's actually incredibly trivial to stealth through levels without being seen. Even the bots aren't really a problem, since they have static patrol paths and limited line of sight.

leetcrew 6y ago
yeah I was surprised by this comment as well. imo, deus ex has one of the better implementations of stealth mechanics (certainly better than recent games like far cry). maybe it was bugged for GP?
akhilcacharya 6y ago
Its really that I'm just more used to modern stealth mechanics that handhold the player more. It's not my style of play in general.
- FakeRemore 6y ago
  It's more of a trial and error kind of play. It really helps to quick save/quick load a lot to figure out what you can get away with.
- whoopdedo 6y ago
  There's a generation gap here. The information density in current game UIs is high with status indicators, aiming aids, location markers, objective lists. Players expect the game to be a DM giving them lots hints on how to proceed through the game. At the time Deus Ex was made one of the talking points was realism. Players wanted to experience the game as a simulation. The hand-holding that's expected today was frowned upon as breaking the immersion. The article briefly touches on this debate between realism vs playability with regards to level design.

eyerony 6y ago

I think it wasn’t until my sixth or seventh play through that I finally felt like I’d found everything in that game. There’s just so much in it, and it’s content to let you miss most of it if you want. IIRC there are a three or so main routes through that first level (in the front, through the tunnel, climb the side), plus a couple optional side-areas.

akhilcacharya 6y ago
It was this conversation [0] that convinced me the game was something special (albeit poorly aged today!) Also in Hong Kong (and a spoiler) was this way of completing an objective that I didn't realize was possible until I saw it on YouTube [1]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKF0IYwhrjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKF0IYwhrjk [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc
- clarry 6y ago
  In that second video, he jumps to Jock's apartment. That one took me years to discover. Same for the collapsed tunnel accessible via the HK canals.. wow, that one is so well hidden.
- FakeRemore 6y ago
  I always figured the bartender was just another philosophy or sociology or political science major who couldn't find a better job. Which I'd say is also a relevant modern issue. I know plenty of college students and grads working shit jobs.

411111111111111 6y ago

I played it so many times around 2000... Fun fact about stealth mechanic rewards in the original: they don't vanish if you did the offensive approach! You could get the most xp by first killing everyone and then run around through tunnels and obstacles to get the other half of the xp I remember the escape from his brothers apartment in hells kitchen especially fondly because of that. First you slaughter everyone so your bro is safe for offensive reward, then you run through the level for the discovery rewards such as enabling the turret which shots the now non-existing enemies (the brother dies if you don't block him by standing in the way so risky to do earlier) and finally escape through the window. 3 routes and you get all the xp :)

clarry 6y ago
> then you run through the level for the discovery rewards such as enabling the turret which shots the now non-existing enemies Whaat. I must've played DX at least a couple dozen times and I never found a turret in the hotel?
- 411111111111111 6y ago
  I think you had to go through elevator, then stealth into the reception and hack a terminal in the back. I might misremember though... It's been almost 20 years after all ;)
hyperman1 6y ago
No. First you hide in the closet while your brother goes on a slaughterfest because he can't die until the script says he does. When bro, the great pacifist, has killed absolutely everything in the hotel, walk out together with him through the front door, where he spontaneously drops dead for no reason at all because the script says he should. I did love that game
- 411111111111111 6y ago
  Pretty sure he survived if you left through the window after killing everyone. You meet him again later iirc, though only very briefly.