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Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

128 points by doppp 6y ago

mdrachuk 6y ago
I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of the time.
- asutekku 6y ago
  I feel the same. I want to play the originals, but they are just so clunky and even the mods do not fix the fundamental problem of how old the games do feel.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    I went back to human revolution a couple months ago. I loved it the first time, but I was really surprised how clunky a game from 2011 felt. I think there were also some scaling issues with my 4k monitor. it's really too bad; mankind divided had a much better "feel" to it, but the story was not as interesting or well developed.
    - clarry 6y ago
      I played HR for the first time last month and couldn't finish it, because it bored me to death and then gave me stupid boss fights. It's so dumbed down and just doesn't come close to the first Deus Ex. And yes it felt clunkier than the first game (I lost count of how many times I fell to my death trying to jump onto some platform to perhaps find a secret or hidden route, only to hit a stupid invisible wall)..
      - eyerony 6y ago
        At launch the boss fights were much worse. They updated it to provide alternative solutions to most or all of them, at some point.
      - silveroriole 6y ago
        Somehow it got away with the same “click a button, get a cutscene” ending as Mass Effect 3 without the same level of outrage. Deeply boring game even at the time. The original DX, on the other hand - it took me years to get past the first level, but once I did it was really engaging.
      - watwut 6y ago
        Deus Ex went downhill over time. First was great. Second was not much meh. Third had stupid boss fights and I decided that trying to finish it is not worth time.
      - AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
        The director's cut provided non-combat solutions to some of the boss fights. But at launch, yeah, those were a huge miss if you had optimized stealth or hacking skills. It felt like a huge slap in the face to anyone that managed to bypass the boss fights in the original Deus Ex by finding the killswitch words. Penny Arcade captured the sentiment at the time pretty well: https://arewenewatthis.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/deus-ex1.jpg https://arewenewatthis.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/deus-ex1.... (Sorry this is not officially from their site--their archive search system is terrible)
        ThrowawayR2 6y ago
        In my opinion, there wasn't really an option other than to optimize for a stealthy gameplay style in DX:HR since ammunition was ridiculously scarce. (Intentionally so: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/08/17/why-is-ammo-so-scarce-in-deus-ex-human-revolution.aspx https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/08/17/why-i...) There is rarely the opportunity for a stand-up gunfight, very much unlike the original Deus Ex, to break up the monotony.
        AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
        The ammo problem wasn't much of an issue for me, as I went for a strictly non-lethal playthrough (for which I was annoyingly denied the achievement, as one of the guards I tranq'd immediately fell unconscious...off a roof). The unavoidable boss-fights were certainly something of a shock at the time.
        djur 6y ago
        Yeah, the main problem is that HR encourages much more intense character specialization than the original game. The latter half of Deus Ex has a lot of situations where you're expected to fight (although you can generally cheese your way through, run past enemies, etc.) but there's a limit to how much you can overinvest in non-combat skills, and the inventory is spacious enough that you can afford to tote around heavy weaponry to get through tough spots (any character can effectively use mines/grenades and they take up very little space).
    - Allenaz 6y ago
      Mankind Divided was such a letdown...
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    That’s funny, Deus Ex is probably the oldest game I re-played that I actually finished again (with mods) as it felt far less clunky than even some games only 10 years old.
- eyerony 6y ago
  Wait, is HR part of “the originals” now?
  - mdrachuk 6y ago
    Nope, looking forward to remake of original Deus Ex.
- throwaway9d0291 6y ago
  Have you tried the older games? Maybe I'm biased since I played them when they were new but I believe they're still very much playable. There are overhaul mods like GMDX, New Vision and Deus Ex: Revision (which I'd rank from best to worst in that order) that are meant to make it a bit nicer too.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  What's the oldest viable game to you, now? I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007. I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too, holds up IMO. Could we get further back than 2007?
  - mdrachuk 6y ago
    I think 2007 is exactly the year. I’m playing Bioshock now, so much fun. But Deus Ex from 2000 is clunky.
    - jointpdf 6y ago
      I’d say 2004: - Half Life 2. I recently started playing it again (for catharsis, when DC was under military occupation a few weeks ago—drones, helicopters, gas-masked cops and all), and woo boy is that game still jaw-dropping to me. Plus, games built on its engine, like TF2 and L4D2, are still popular. - World of Warcraft. I never got into this game at the time (was still a recovering EverQuest addict), but sometimes I pop on the free edition and level a character to 20. It’s still the largest MMO by player base. - Also: Knights of the Old Republic II, The Sims 2 (best Sims imo), Metal Gear Solid 3, Halo 2, Metroid Prime 2
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Probably not what you're really asking, but many of the Infocom text adventures are still pretty playable. Yes, the parser is quite dumb but the writing and plots are still quite compelling. Graphical games through at least the 1990s probably don't hold up as well, except as nostalgia.
  - detritus 6y ago
    I still occasionally play Total Annihilation (97) and, somewhat more amusingly, Populous II (91) via an Amiga emulator.
  - eyerony 6y ago
    IMHO Perfect Dark is one of the oldest shooters that holds up (play the version on the Xbox 360, maybe also the XBone, not sure). Yeah yeah it's a console shooter, but it's outstanding and hi-res + dual-stick controls make it feel modern-enough. Do note that it has two two-player campaign modes in addition to regular single player: co-op, and... versus. Yes, versus. Also be aware the difficulty modes change the objectives significantly, and sometimes also your starting position, so if it seems weirdly short bump up the difficulty. I think some of the original frantic shooters hold up alright, for what they are. Quake, stuff like that. They're kinda niche genre now, though. Not sure about the early Dooms, hard to judge those as easily. I like them, still, but... The Half Life remake in the HL2 engine (Black Mesa) is very true to the spirit of the original and smoothes its rough edges off very elegantly, but the original's probably still fairly playable, too. First mass effect, oof. It suffers from a lot of "which of the three buildings they made will this quest take place in?". Also having enemies walk right past your AI teammates, who are busy doing nothing, to shoot you in the back over. And over. And over. Gets really frustrating after a while. Two is so much better. You're in for a treat. [EDIT] on reflection the one mechanic that probably feels off to a modern player in Perfect Dark, and indeed in many older shooters, is having thrown weapons treated like ordinary weapons, rather than a secondary attack with a separate set of items to cycle through. That is, you have to switch away from your gun to arm a thrown weapon, then throw it, then switch back. That's a little clunky. IIRC throwing-is-separate model wasn't popularized until the first Modern Warfare (I've played the first Call of Duty recently and I don't think it was in that, yet—man, talk about one that doesn't seem nearly as good on re-visiting)
- overcast 6y ago
  Human Revolution is an older game? Geez, I must be really getting old then. That game certainly holds up just fine, and does not need a remake.
  - mdrachuk 6y ago
    I mean I did play HR, and I’d like to play a remake of a Deus Ex from 2000.
- tempodox 6y ago
  Your wish has been granted. Look for “Deus Ex Revision” on Steam, it's even free. It's Windows only, but I managed to get it running inside Wineskin on my Mac :)
akhilcacharya 6y ago
Like most people today, I attempted to get into the game a few dozen times until I finally was able to get past the first level "my own way" that didn't rely on the really finicky stealth mechanics (specifically using a GEP gun to destroy the robot, then walking through the front door). The rest of the game is an absolute marvel of design. Even for a modern game the level design and depth of the story is remarkable. The game doesn't even look half bad if you install modern texture packs. It's a shame that the themes of the original were dumbed down significantly in the sequel. I started another play through recently exactly for this reason: > Smith: Deus Ex and Dishonored both involve a plague, and they both involve powerful, corrupt elites turning the disenfranchised against each other. When some states discouraged the wearing of masks or sheltering in place, somebody inevitably linked me the opening cinematic. ‘Why contain it? Let the bodies pile up in the streets’.
- FakeRemore 6y ago
  > really finicky Is it finicky? The stealth system is very basic and based on line-of-sight and sound (for human enemies). As long as you aren't running, it's actually incredibly trivial to stealth through levels without being seen. Even the bots aren't really a problem, since they have static patrol paths and limited line of sight.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    yeah I was surprised by this comment as well. imo, deus ex has one of the better implementations of stealth mechanics (certainly better than recent games like far cry). maybe it was bugged for GP?
  - akhilcacharya 6y ago
    Its really that I'm just more used to modern stealth mechanics that handhold the player more. It's not my style of play in general.
    - FakeRemore 6y ago
      It's more of a trial and error kind of play. It really helps to quick save/quick load a lot to figure out what you can get away with.
jki275 6y ago
Still one of the best games ever released. The gameplay is clunky now in comparison to modern gaming, but the story is still one of the most compelling in the field. Agree with the above -- would love to see it remade using modern engine.
trabant00 6y ago
> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.
- arcturus17 6y ago
  Anything close in what regards? There are amazing games coming out all the time.
  - flohofwoe 6y ago
    Amazing to look at, but not innovative. There's very rarely that combination of a big AAA game combined with gameplay innovation these days that Deus Ex (and some other groundbreaking games in the late 90's) represented. The big blockbuster games cost so much money to make today that those who provide the money are extremely risk averse, so you get rehash after rehash after rehash of proven formulas with shinier graphics. All the (gameplay and storytelling) innovation happens in smaller indie games. Some of them actually have incredible production value, but rarely the marketing power of AAA productions by the big publishers. It's much like Hollywood in the 70's vs Hollywood today. (some edits to make it clear that I'm talking about innovation outside the pure rendering technology, that's where AAA productions are leading, no doubt).
  - trabant00 6y ago
    The game pushed the envelope in a lot of ways. At the time I was simply shocked by how immersive the game was, from the backstory present in everything to the freedom you had as a player to approach situations. Sure, today we have those things in a lot of games, but they are formulaic, dumbed down and became stale with overuse. Today you can really only see innovation in indie games - which have limitations because of their resources. Deus Ex was a innovative triple A. Above thoughts are ramblings, I know. Truth is I don't know what I would like to see in a modern equivalent. And that's how I want it too, I want to be surprised, overwhelmed, I want to see the best in the business come up with something I can't even imagine. Instead I get remakes and ubisoft like formula "open world" full of busy work and chores.
futureproofd 6y ago
I remember, as a 13 year old with newly acquired PC, spending most of my summer playing this game into the early hours of the morning. The conspiratorial story branches and gameplay were so compelling to me at the time, I didn't feel the need to do anything else. No friends, no outdoor time, just Deus Ex- No regrets either.
unixhero 6y ago
I have to mention Ross' Youtube channel Accursed Farms' review [0] [1] [2] of Deus Ex. I would highly recommended watching them: "I came for a game review and left with a better understanding of the economy and politics. Ross you blow my mind" [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwpLDvAnvo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwpLDvAnvo [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLEuQrvND0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLEuQrvND0
technics256 6y ago
The opening scene feels prophetic in the time of coronavirus: https://youtu.be/zStn70Ot4r0 https://youtu.be/zStn70Ot4r0
- samstave 6y ago
  Not to mention just how amazing the theme music is as well. I actually still play Thief 2, and am about to play Deus Ex again
- AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
  To quote from the article: >Smith: Every time the US shifts a little towards fascism or centralised control, somebody will send me a link to something from Deus Ex. It’s not that we were prescient – the sad part is that it’s on repeat through history.
notkaiho 6y ago
We need, in fact the industry simply REQUIRES, in-depth oral history journalism and retrospectives like this. The "gaming industry" is 40+ years old now, and there have been absolutely pivotal works in that time. They deserve to be interrogated and documented dispassionately and with rigor.
- coldpie 6y ago
  The Video Game History Foundation is probably the best organization pushing this forward today. Also, last year, Retronauts did a couple of 1-on-1 interviews with early PC game developers from the 70s and 80s (having trouble finding direct links to them now, sorry).
- stevekemp 6y ago
  https://www.filfre.net/ https://www.filfre.net/ is a great example of such an examination - starting with the classic text-adventure games, and gradually getting more and more current. The table of contents is impressive, the writing is wonderful, and you can download a series of ebook collections containing the individual blog posts.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    The most recent articles on DOOM are especially relevant here, because some of the names involved in Ion Storm (though not as directly involved in Deus Ex) show up in the various tales about DOOM and the early Shareware era. (Jimmy Maher also is pretty good about citing sources and the book Masters of DOOM is cited several times as a primary source, which is also why it is recommended several times in sibling comments.)
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Probably mentioned elsewhere, but Masters of Doom is a great book that reads a bit better (for me personally) than an interview like this article.
  - ryneandal 6y ago
whoopdedo 6y ago
For the 15th anniversary Warren Spector, Sheldon Pacotti and Chris Norden got together to replay the game.[1] Spector and Looking Glass creators also had a replay for System Shock's 25th anniversary last year. [2] Deus Ex made me read "The Man Who Was Thursday". I was slightly disappointed that the other book "Jacob's Shadow" was made-up for the game. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ18p4QH2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ18p4QH2Q [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IzNzVAxk8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IzNzVAxk8E
- starpilot 6y ago
  Sheldon wrote most of the dialogue and is a novelist. He also has degrees in math and English from MIT and Harvard, respectively. Rare to have that background for a writer at a game company today. So much prescient dialogue, here's the game talking about the EU/globalists today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWlJ_muK0I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWlJ_muK0I
laumars 6y ago
> “We were very influenced by three games: Thief, System Shock 2 and Half-Life.” Personally I got a lot more enjoyment from those games than I did Deus Ex. Particularly SS2 which still remains one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played and one of the few ones to make be jump and literally scared at times too. Not taking anything away from Deus Ex, but at the time it didn't feel as genre defining as the others that inspired it.
- kiddico 6y ago
  I've been meaning to play SS2. Do you think I'd be confused to jump in there or should I play the first?
  - clarry 6y ago
    You don't need to play the first. There are some references to it in SS2 but it's not a big deal.
  - Uehreka 6y ago
    I’ve heard the first one is a totally different game and that System Shock 2 stands alone.
  - laumars 6y ago
    The intro of SS2 does a pretty good recap of the first game and from there on SS2 is it's own game.
  - rhn_mk1 6y ago
    You won't lose much by not playing the first one. It's more tedious than the second installment, so I would try them in reverse order just for this reason.
allenu 6y ago
What I think of when I think of Deus Ex was back then it was receiving accolades and a year or two after it came out I decided to give it a try. I saw they had a really inexpensive version out that was called Deus Ex: Special Limited Edition, for probably $10 or so. After playing it a bit I realized it literally was a “limited edition” in that it was just a demo disc. I couldn’t believe the publisher would rip people off by issuing such a version under the guise of it being a special edition.
- kiddico 6y ago
  "Deus E(x)specially Limited Edition" works nicely as a replacement title... At least you aren't alone[1] Despite being an inferior product, Special Limited Edition was sold by major retailers for as much or more than the full game, sometimes on the same shelf. This version was very negatively received, as the similar price and misleading name lead many to unwittingly purchase what turned out to be an "extended demo" or "trialware". [1] https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Deus_Ex#Game_versions https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Deus_Ex#Game_versions
justaj 6y ago
Does anyone here notice the stylistic similarity to The Matrix? Both featured a protagonist with a trench coat and black shades. I wonder if The Matrix inspired the design team of Deus Ex in some ways.
- kemayo 6y ago
  The Matrix came ~9 months before Deus Ex, so their productions definitely overlapped but they'd have had time to assimilate some stuff if they wanted to. That said, it's more that they're both drawing on similar cyberpunk traditions. There's a clear line between the aesthetic of Neuromancer and Deus Ex / The Matrix both.
  - djur 6y ago
    There's a Matrix easter egg in Deus Ex (the cheat code 'thereisnospoon') so they were definitely aware of the similarities. They're really only superficially similar in aesthetics and broad themes, though.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
mrkeen 6y ago
Phenomenal loading times. Large empty levels like liberty island. Brilliant puzzles like picking the lock on an office (destroying the lock pick) so you can steal a lock pick from the office. My favourite was the well-timed cache misses that would immediately freeze the game, e.g. the first time you fire a shot in combat, then restore interactivity after you die in fast-forward. But it's all worth it because you're a badass cyborg with a flashlight, i mean, "augmented vision".
ajsharp 6y ago
Deux Ex felt then and still today like a gift where story was everything, right before online/multiplayer completely transformed the industry, and for a good ten years single player was more or less an afterthought. I've never been so engrossed in a storyline as I was when I played Deus Ex. I re-played it a few years ago and I was shocked how satisfying it still was. I don't work in gaming, and I haven't been an avid gamer in nearly 15 years. From my cursory viewpoint, it feels like every 5-10 years a story-driven game comes along, but mostly it feels like the industry is focused on either massive open world games, or Fortnite-esque quick-hit experiences. I'd love to hear from people in the industry on how games like Deux Ex that live and die on story are thought of in the industry.
- redxdev 6y ago
  The problem with being on the outside of the industry (or not being a gamer) and looking into it is that most of the social media and news presence is around the big name multiplayer and blockbuster titles. That doesn't mean story-focused games don't come out, just that they don't garner attention outside of the gaming sphere. A short list of ones to look into, just to name a few: Disco Elysium - 2019 - A _very_ weird RPG where you play an alchoholic amnesiac detective and where your skills are more aspects of your personality than abilities. The writing is so incredibly strange and wonderful that I'm not sure quite how to describe it. Your own personality traits sometimes talk and may try to convince you to be a socialist. Outer Wilds - 2018 - A game about exploring a small simulated solar system for the purpose of simply learning more about it. There's a lot to this game, but because the entire purpose of the game is exploration and learning about the world _everything_ is a spoiler so I won't say any more. A Plague Tale: Innocence - 2019 - Stealth-focused fantasy/adventure game set in the 1300s in France. Undertale - 2015 - Another game that's hard to describe, don't be put off by its look but it absolutely lives and dies by its story. Especially since there are some very important gameplay elements that blend into the story. Mass Effect 1-3 - 2007-2012 - Even if ME3's ending is widely panned, the rest of the series is absolutely story-focused and I figure I should mention some true AAAs that are known for story. NieR: Automata - 2017 - philosophical weirdness about androids and machines wrapped up in a pretty good action game. Bioshock 1-2/Infinite - 2007-2013 - Hard not to mention these in a thread about writing and Deus Ex, seeing as this series also has roots going back to Looking Glass, Thief, and System Shock.

128 points by doppp 6y ago

I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of the time.

asutekku 6y ago
I feel the same. I want to play the originals, but they are just so clunky and even the mods do not fix the fundamental problem of how old the games do feel.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  I went back to human revolution a couple months ago. I loved it the first time, but I was really surprised how clunky a game from 2011 felt. I think there were also some scaling issues with my 4k monitor. it's really too bad; mankind divided had a much better "feel" to it, but the story was not as interesting or well developed.
  - clarry 6y ago
    I played HR for the first time last month and couldn't finish it, because it bored me to death and then gave me stupid boss fights. It's so dumbed down and just doesn't come close to the first Deus Ex. And yes it felt clunkier than the first game (I lost count of how many times I fell to my death trying to jump onto some platform to perhaps find a secret or hidden route, only to hit a stupid invisible wall)..
    - eyerony 6y ago
      At launch the boss fights were much worse. They updated it to provide alternative solutions to most or all of them, at some point.
    - silveroriole 6y ago
      Somehow it got away with the same “click a button, get a cutscene” ending as Mass Effect 3 without the same level of outrage. Deeply boring game even at the time. The original DX, on the other hand - it took me years to get past the first level, but once I did it was really engaging.
    - watwut 6y ago
      Deus Ex went downhill over time. First was great. Second was not much meh. Third had stupid boss fights and I decided that trying to finish it is not worth time.
    - AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
      The director's cut provided non-combat solutions to some of the boss fights. But at launch, yeah, those were a huge miss if you had optimized stealth or hacking skills. It felt like a huge slap in the face to anyone that managed to bypass the boss fights in the original Deus Ex by finding the killswitch words. Penny Arcade captured the sentiment at the time pretty well: https://arewenewatthis.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/deus-ex1.jpg https://arewenewatthis.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/deus-ex1.... (Sorry this is not officially from their site--their archive search system is terrible)
      - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
        In my opinion, there wasn't really an option other than to optimize for a stealthy gameplay style in DX:HR since ammunition was ridiculously scarce. (Intentionally so: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/08/17/why-is-ammo-so-scarce-in-deus-ex-human-revolution.aspx https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/08/17/why-i...) There is rarely the opportunity for a stand-up gunfight, very much unlike the original Deus Ex, to break up the monotony.
        AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
        The ammo problem wasn't much of an issue for me, as I went for a strictly non-lethal playthrough (for which I was annoyingly denied the achievement, as one of the guards I tranq'd immediately fell unconscious...off a roof). The unavoidable boss-fights were certainly something of a shock at the time.
        djur 6y ago
        Yeah, the main problem is that HR encourages much more intense character specialization than the original game. The latter half of Deus Ex has a lot of situations where you're expected to fight (although you can generally cheese your way through, run past enemies, etc.) but there's a limit to how much you can overinvest in non-combat skills, and the inventory is spacious enough that you can afford to tote around heavy weaponry to get through tough spots (any character can effectively use mines/grenades and they take up very little space).
  - Allenaz 6y ago
    Mankind Divided was such a letdown...
- Semaphor 6y ago
  That’s funny, Deus Ex is probably the oldest game I re-played that I actually finished again (with mods) as it felt far less clunky than even some games only 10 years old.
eyerony 6y ago
Wait, is HR part of “the originals” now?
- mdrachuk 6y ago
  Nope, looking forward to remake of original Deus Ex.
throwaway9d0291 6y ago
Have you tried the older games? Maybe I'm biased since I played them when they were new but I believe they're still very much playable. There are overhaul mods like GMDX, New Vision and Deus Ex: Revision (which I'd rank from best to worst in that order) that are meant to make it a bit nicer too.
ubermonkey 6y ago
What's the oldest viable game to you, now? I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007. I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too, holds up IMO. Could we get further back than 2007?
- mdrachuk 6y ago
  I think 2007 is exactly the year. I’m playing Bioshock now, so much fun. But Deus Ex from 2000 is clunky.
  - jointpdf 6y ago
    I’d say 2004: - Half Life 2. I recently started playing it again (for catharsis, when DC was under military occupation a few weeks ago—drones, helicopters, gas-masked cops and all), and woo boy is that game still jaw-dropping to me. Plus, games built on its engine, like TF2 and L4D2, are still popular. - World of Warcraft. I never got into this game at the time (was still a recovering EverQuest addict), but sometimes I pop on the free edition and level a character to 20. It’s still the largest MMO by player base. - Also: Knights of the Old Republic II, The Sims 2 (best Sims imo), Metal Gear Solid 3, Halo 2, Metroid Prime 2
- ghaff 6y ago
  Probably not what you're really asking, but many of the Infocom text adventures are still pretty playable. Yes, the parser is quite dumb but the writing and plots are still quite compelling. Graphical games through at least the 1990s probably don't hold up as well, except as nostalgia.
- detritus 6y ago
  I still occasionally play Total Annihilation (97) and, somewhat more amusingly, Populous II (91) via an Amiga emulator.
- eyerony 6y ago
  IMHO Perfect Dark is one of the oldest shooters that holds up (play the version on the Xbox 360, maybe also the XBone, not sure). Yeah yeah it's a console shooter, but it's outstanding and hi-res + dual-stick controls make it feel modern-enough. Do note that it has two two-player campaign modes in addition to regular single player: co-op, and... versus. Yes, versus. Also be aware the difficulty modes change the objectives significantly, and sometimes also your starting position, so if it seems weirdly short bump up the difficulty. I think some of the original frantic shooters hold up alright, for what they are. Quake, stuff like that. They're kinda niche genre now, though. Not sure about the early Dooms, hard to judge those as easily. I like them, still, but... The Half Life remake in the HL2 engine (Black Mesa) is very true to the spirit of the original and smoothes its rough edges off very elegantly, but the original's probably still fairly playable, too. First mass effect, oof. It suffers from a lot of "which of the three buildings they made will this quest take place in?". Also having enemies walk right past your AI teammates, who are busy doing nothing, to shoot you in the back over. And over. And over. Gets really frustrating after a while. Two is so much better. You're in for a treat. [EDIT] on reflection the one mechanic that probably feels off to a modern player in Perfect Dark, and indeed in many older shooters, is having thrown weapons treated like ordinary weapons, rather than a secondary attack with a separate set of items to cycle through. That is, you have to switch away from your gun to arm a thrown weapon, then throw it, then switch back. That's a little clunky. IIRC throwing-is-separate model wasn't popularized until the first Modern Warfare (I've played the first Call of Duty recently and I don't think it was in that, yet—man, talk about one that doesn't seem nearly as good on re-visiting)
overcast 6y ago
Human Revolution is an older game? Geez, I must be really getting old then. That game certainly holds up just fine, and does not need a remake.
- mdrachuk 6y ago
  I mean I did play HR, and I’d like to play a remake of a Deus Ex from 2000.
tempodox 6y ago
Your wish has been granted. Look for “Deus Ex Revision” on Steam, it's even free. It's Windows only, but I managed to get it running inside Wineskin on my Mac :)

akhilcacharya 6y ago

Like most people today, I attempted to get into the game a few dozen times until I finally was able to get past the first level "my own way" that didn't rely on the really finicky stealth mechanics (specifically using a GEP gun to destroy the robot, then walking through the front door). The rest of the game is an absolute marvel of design. Even for a modern game the level design and depth of the story is remarkable. The game doesn't even look half bad if you install modern texture packs. It's a shame that the themes of the original were dumbed down significantly in the sequel. I started another play through recently exactly for this reason: > Smith: Deus Ex and Dishonored both involve a plague, and they both involve powerful, corrupt elites turning the disenfranchised against each other. When some states discouraged the wearing of masks or sheltering in place, somebody inevitably linked me the opening cinematic. ‘Why contain it? Let the bodies pile up in the streets’.

FakeRemore 6y ago
> really finicky Is it finicky? The stealth system is very basic and based on line-of-sight and sound (for human enemies). As long as you aren't running, it's actually incredibly trivial to stealth through levels without being seen. Even the bots aren't really a problem, since they have static patrol paths and limited line of sight.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  yeah I was surprised by this comment as well. imo, deus ex has one of the better implementations of stealth mechanics (certainly better than recent games like far cry). maybe it was bugged for GP?
- akhilcacharya 6y ago
  Its really that I'm just more used to modern stealth mechanics that handhold the player more. It's not my style of play in general.
  - FakeRemore 6y ago
    It's more of a trial and error kind of play. It really helps to quick save/quick load a lot to figure out what you can get away with.

jki275 6y ago

Still one of the best games ever released. The gameplay is clunky now in comparison to modern gaming, but the story is still one of the most compelling in the field. Agree with the above -- would love to see it remade using modern engine.

trabant00 6y ago

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

arcturus17 6y ago
Anything close in what regards? There are amazing games coming out all the time.
- flohofwoe 6y ago
  Amazing to look at, but not innovative. There's very rarely that combination of a big AAA game combined with gameplay innovation these days that Deus Ex (and some other groundbreaking games in the late 90's) represented. The big blockbuster games cost so much money to make today that those who provide the money are extremely risk averse, so you get rehash after rehash after rehash of proven formulas with shinier graphics. All the (gameplay and storytelling) innovation happens in smaller indie games. Some of them actually have incredible production value, but rarely the marketing power of AAA productions by the big publishers. It's much like Hollywood in the 70's vs Hollywood today. (some edits to make it clear that I'm talking about innovation outside the pure rendering technology, that's where AAA productions are leading, no doubt).
- trabant00 6y ago
  The game pushed the envelope in a lot of ways. At the time I was simply shocked by how immersive the game was, from the backstory present in everything to the freedom you had as a player to approach situations. Sure, today we have those things in a lot of games, but they are formulaic, dumbed down and became stale with overuse. Today you can really only see innovation in indie games - which have limitations because of their resources. Deus Ex was a innovative triple A. Above thoughts are ramblings, I know. Truth is I don't know what I would like to see in a modern equivalent. And that's how I want it too, I want to be surprised, overwhelmed, I want to see the best in the business come up with something I can't even imagine. Instead I get remakes and ubisoft like formula "open world" full of busy work and chores.

futureproofd 6y ago

I remember, as a 13 year old with newly acquired PC, spending most of my summer playing this game into the early hours of the morning. The conspiratorial story branches and gameplay were so compelling to me at the time, I didn't feel the need to do anything else. No friends, no outdoor time, just Deus Ex- No regrets either.

unixhero 6y ago

I have to mention Ross' Youtube channel Accursed Farms' review [0] [1] [2] of Deus Ex. I would highly recommended watching them: "I came for a game review and left with a better understanding of the economy and politics. Ross you blow my mind" [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwpLDvAnvo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwpLDvAnvo [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLEuQrvND0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLEuQrvND0

technics256 6y ago

The opening scene feels prophetic in the time of coronavirus: https://youtu.be/zStn70Ot4r0 https://youtu.be/zStn70Ot4r0

samstave 6y ago
Not to mention just how amazing the theme music is as well. I actually still play Thief 2, and am about to play Deus Ex again
AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
To quote from the article: >Smith: Every time the US shifts a little towards fascism or centralised control, somebody will send me a link to something from Deus Ex. It’s not that we were prescient – the sad part is that it’s on repeat through history.

notkaiho 6y ago

We need, in fact the industry simply REQUIRES, in-depth oral history journalism and retrospectives like this. The "gaming industry" is 40+ years old now, and there have been absolutely pivotal works in that time. They deserve to be interrogated and documented dispassionately and with rigor.

coldpie 6y ago
The Video Game History Foundation is probably the best organization pushing this forward today. Also, last year, Retronauts did a couple of 1-on-1 interviews with early PC game developers from the 70s and 80s (having trouble finding direct links to them now, sorry).
stevekemp 6y ago
https://www.filfre.net/ https://www.filfre.net/ is a great example of such an examination - starting with the classic text-adventure games, and gradually getting more and more current. The table of contents is impressive, the writing is wonderful, and you can download a series of ebook collections containing the individual blog posts.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  The most recent articles on DOOM are especially relevant here, because some of the names involved in Ion Storm (though not as directly involved in Deus Ex) show up in the various tales about DOOM and the early Shareware era. (Jimmy Maher also is pretty good about citing sources and the book Masters of DOOM is cited several times as a primary source, which is also why it is recommended several times in sibling comments.)
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Probably mentioned elsewhere, but Masters of Doom is a great book that reads a bit better (for me personally) than an interview like this article.
- ryneandal 6y ago

whoopdedo 6y ago

For the 15th anniversary Warren Spector, Sheldon Pacotti and Chris Norden got together to replay the game.[1] Spector and Looking Glass creators also had a replay for System Shock's 25th anniversary last year. [2] Deus Ex made me read "The Man Who Was Thursday". I was slightly disappointed that the other book "Jacob's Shadow" was made-up for the game. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ18p4QH2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ18p4QH2Q [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IzNzVAxk8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IzNzVAxk8E

starpilot 6y ago
Sheldon wrote most of the dialogue and is a novelist. He also has degrees in math and English from MIT and Harvard, respectively. Rare to have that background for a writer at a game company today. So much prescient dialogue, here's the game talking about the EU/globalists today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWlJ_muK0I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWlJ_muK0I

laumars 6y ago

> “We were very influenced by three games: Thief, System Shock 2 and Half-Life.” Personally I got a lot more enjoyment from those games than I did Deus Ex. Particularly SS2 which still remains one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played and one of the few ones to make be jump and literally scared at times too. Not taking anything away from Deus Ex, but at the time it didn't feel as genre defining as the others that inspired it.

kiddico 6y ago
I've been meaning to play SS2. Do you think I'd be confused to jump in there or should I play the first?
- clarry 6y ago
  You don't need to play the first. There are some references to it in SS2 but it's not a big deal.
- Uehreka 6y ago
  I’ve heard the first one is a totally different game and that System Shock 2 stands alone.
- laumars 6y ago
  The intro of SS2 does a pretty good recap of the first game and from there on SS2 is it's own game.
- rhn_mk1 6y ago
  You won't lose much by not playing the first one. It's more tedious than the second installment, so I would try them in reverse order just for this reason.

allenu 6y ago

What I think of when I think of Deus Ex was back then it was receiving accolades and a year or two after it came out I decided to give it a try. I saw they had a really inexpensive version out that was called Deus Ex: Special Limited Edition, for probably $10 or so. After playing it a bit I realized it literally was a “limited edition” in that it was just a demo disc. I couldn’t believe the publisher would rip people off by issuing such a version under the guise of it being a special edition.

kiddico 6y ago
"Deus E(x)specially Limited Edition" works nicely as a replacement title... At least you aren't alone[1] Despite being an inferior product, Special Limited Edition was sold by major retailers for as much or more than the full game, sometimes on the same shelf. This version was very negatively received, as the similar price and misleading name lead many to unwittingly purchase what turned out to be an "extended demo" or "trialware". [1] https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Deus_Ex#Game_versions https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Deus_Ex#Game_versions

justaj 6y ago

Does anyone here notice the stylistic similarity to The Matrix? Both featured a protagonist with a trench coat and black shades. I wonder if The Matrix inspired the design team of Deus Ex in some ways.

kemayo 6y ago
The Matrix came ~9 months before Deus Ex, so their productions definitely overlapped but they'd have had time to assimilate some stuff if they wanted to. That said, it's more that they're both drawing on similar cyberpunk traditions. There's a clear line between the aesthetic of Neuromancer and Deus Ex / The Matrix both.
- djur 6y ago
  There's a Matrix easter egg in Deus Ex (the cheat code 'thereisnospoon') so they were definitely aware of the similarities. They're really only superficially similar in aesthetics and broad themes, though.
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mrkeen 6y ago

Phenomenal loading times. Large empty levels like liberty island. Brilliant puzzles like picking the lock on an office (destroying the lock pick) so you can steal a lock pick from the office. My favourite was the well-timed cache misses that would immediately freeze the game, e.g. the first time you fire a shot in combat, then restore interactivity after you die in fast-forward. But it's all worth it because you're a badass cyborg with a flashlight, i mean, "augmented vision".

ajsharp 6y ago

Deux Ex felt then and still today like a gift where story was everything, right before online/multiplayer completely transformed the industry, and for a good ten years single player was more or less an afterthought. I've never been so engrossed in a storyline as I was when I played Deus Ex. I re-played it a few years ago and I was shocked how satisfying it still was. I don't work in gaming, and I haven't been an avid gamer in nearly 15 years. From my cursory viewpoint, it feels like every 5-10 years a story-driven game comes along, but mostly it feels like the industry is focused on either massive open world games, or Fortnite-esque quick-hit experiences. I'd love to hear from people in the industry on how games like Deux Ex that live and die on story are thought of in the industry.

redxdev 6y ago
The problem with being on the outside of the industry (or not being a gamer) and looking into it is that most of the social media and news presence is around the big name multiplayer and blockbuster titles. That doesn't mean story-focused games don't come out, just that they don't garner attention outside of the gaming sphere. A short list of ones to look into, just to name a few: Disco Elysium - 2019 - A _very_ weird RPG where you play an alchoholic amnesiac detective and where your skills are more aspects of your personality than abilities. The writing is so incredibly strange and wonderful that I'm not sure quite how to describe it. Your own personality traits sometimes talk and may try to convince you to be a socialist. Outer Wilds - 2018 - A game about exploring a small simulated solar system for the purpose of simply learning more about it. There's a lot to this game, but because the entire purpose of the game is exploration and learning about the world _everything_ is a spoiler so I won't say any more. A Plague Tale: Innocence - 2019 - Stealth-focused fantasy/adventure game set in the 1300s in France. Undertale - 2015 - Another game that's hard to describe, don't be put off by its look but it absolutely lives and dies by its story. Especially since there are some very important gameplay elements that blend into the story. Mass Effect 1-3 - 2007-2012 - Even if ME3's ending is widely panned, the rest of the series is absolutely story-focused and I figure I should mention some true AAAs that are known for story. NieR: Automata - 2017 - philosophical weirdness about androids and machines wrapped up in a pretty good action game. Bioshock 1-2/Infinite - 2007-2013 - Hard not to mention these in a thread about writing and Deus Ex, seeing as this series also has roots going back to Looking Glass, Thief, and System Shock.