4 ms·

So no info on what it actually is. Just some company filing a patent. And the fact that they call it "a neutralizer technology" suggests that it's probably just

So no info on what it actually is. Just some company filing a patent. And the fact that they call it "a neutralizer technology" suggests that it's probably just a bunch of BS combined with previously known drugs to make it patentable. I'm pretty sure there's at least some published research on using at least one antipsychotic for that and mountains of "folk research" on using benzodiazepines.

fabiomaia 6y ago
Probably just benzodiazepines labeled "LSD off switch" to make money off the increasing interest in psychedelics.
throwaway4666 6y ago
Yeah marketing something widely known to make it palatable and "provide liability" isn't new. See e.g. Scott Alexander's piece on literal fish oil: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescription/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescripti...
- raverbashing 6y ago
  Hah. This article is not only golden, but got me deeply annoyed with all BS machine it exposes Spoiler alert > And I used to think that the alternative medicine people were overestimating how evil Big Pharma was. But now I know that’s not right. > Now I know they’re underestimating it. (though I understand a bit of the issues behind the BRCA gene testing thing and I'm not sure it continues to be banned or merely the results need to be more generic and not just "you have X% of having cancer")
- im3w1l 6y ago
  There have been way too many scandals around supplement purity for me to buy into his narrative. Like if someone told me a given brand of fish oil supplements contained 10% of the stated dose, was rancid and full of heavy metals I wouldn't be the least surprised. But if a fish oil medicine had those issues, I would be shocked, because the consequences for the guilty party would be much bigger, a huge circus of lawsuits and people losing their licenses. That's how I imagine it anyway.
  - vikramkr 6y ago
    If it's an fda approved drug, I'd be shocked. You see how strictly they're coming down on contamination in the antacid space. If it was a supplement calling itself a medicine with a "these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA" label, then I'd be surprised if it actually did contain what it says it does, and do what it promises to do
  - fenwick67 6y ago
    IMO we need the FDA to start caring about supplements. They should at least be allowed to nail companies straight-up lying about dosages. Hell, classify them as food and they probably could.
    - Forbo 6y ago
      You can thank Orrin Hatch for the current dumpster fire of a situation we find ourselves in. Lots of "supplement" MLMs and such in Utah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_Education_Act_of_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_...
tyingq 6y ago
This article suggests it's likely Ketanserin. https://newatlas.com/science/lsd-off-switch-mindmed-liechti-psychedelic-science/ https://newatlas.com/science/lsd-off-switch-mindmed-liechti-...
- therein 6y ago
  So just an already known 5HT2A antagonist.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
I'm curious what would be the market for this? wouldn't that be an extremely niche scenario within the emergency-response medicine where people inexperienced with LSD who suffer a bad trip ask to be taken off it? afaik LSD isn't a drug that one is likely to OD from either.
- freeone3000 6y ago
  There's a lot of inconveniences with drugs that have very long half-lives and very low effective doses. Alcohol lasts for an hour or two; with LSD, you're out for 24. You can't just take less, or it won't work. So this would allow for shorter trips.
- vmception 6y ago
  There is a lot of hearsay off switches, there is just a lot of hearsay in drug communities. For LSD, anything to get out of the rest of a 14 hour trip and come down would be an option that the market would easily gravitate toward.
- tsjackson 6y ago
  Psilocybin (from mushrooms) and MDMA are both fast tracked for FDA approval as adjuncts to therapy. Psychedelics are poised to become the most common psychiatric treatment in the world, with ongoing trials showing huge effects for treating PTSD, addiction, and treatment-resistant depression. Despite a lot of therapeutic promise, LSD has not received as much research attention, primarily because of its duration of effect. Having therapists present for up to 24 hours (compared to 6 for psilocybin) is prohibitively expensive. A true off switch would facilitate its study and use in treatment.
  - CameronNemo 6y ago
    Results from studies that used an antipsychotic across the board would not be generalizeable to traditional experiences. At that point, why use L in the first place if older, faster acting substances are available. Mescaline and psilocybine have been used in spiritual and therapeutic settings for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Where is the interest in L coming from, if not ease of slipping it past customs and other law enforcement?
TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
It's probably a serotonin 5-HT2a antagonist, given that most of the psychedelic effects come from 5-HT2a agonism.

fabiomaia 6y ago

Probably just benzodiazepines labeled "LSD off switch" to make money off the increasing interest in psychedelics.

throwaway4666 6y ago

Yeah marketing something widely known to make it palatable and "provide liability" isn't new. See e.g. Scott Alexander's piece on literal fish oil: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescription/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescripti...

raverbashing 6y ago
Hah. This article is not only golden, but got me deeply annoyed with all BS machine it exposes Spoiler alert > And I used to think that the alternative medicine people were overestimating how evil Big Pharma was. But now I know that’s not right. > Now I know they’re underestimating it. (though I understand a bit of the issues behind the BRCA gene testing thing and I'm not sure it continues to be banned or merely the results need to be more generic and not just "you have X% of having cancer")
im3w1l 6y ago
There have been way too many scandals around supplement purity for me to buy into his narrative. Like if someone told me a given brand of fish oil supplements contained 10% of the stated dose, was rancid and full of heavy metals I wouldn't be the least surprised. But if a fish oil medicine had those issues, I would be shocked, because the consequences for the guilty party would be much bigger, a huge circus of lawsuits and people losing their licenses. That's how I imagine it anyway.
- vikramkr 6y ago
  If it's an fda approved drug, I'd be shocked. You see how strictly they're coming down on contamination in the antacid space. If it was a supplement calling itself a medicine with a "these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA" label, then I'd be surprised if it actually did contain what it says it does, and do what it promises to do
- fenwick67 6y ago
  IMO we need the FDA to start caring about supplements. They should at least be allowed to nail companies straight-up lying about dosages. Hell, classify them as food and they probably could.
  - Forbo 6y ago
    You can thank Orrin Hatch for the current dumpster fire of a situation we find ourselves in. Lots of "supplement" MLMs and such in Utah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_Education_Act_of_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_...

tyingq 6y ago

This article suggests it's likely Ketanserin. https://newatlas.com/science/lsd-off-switch-mindmed-liechti-psychedelic-science/ https://newatlas.com/science/lsd-off-switch-mindmed-liechti-...

therein 6y ago
So just an already known 5HT2A antagonist.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

I'm curious what would be the market for this? wouldn't that be an extremely niche scenario within the emergency-response medicine where people inexperienced with LSD who suffer a bad trip ask to be taken off it? afaik LSD isn't a drug that one is likely to OD from either.

freeone3000 6y ago
There's a lot of inconveniences with drugs that have very long half-lives and very low effective doses. Alcohol lasts for an hour or two; with LSD, you're out for 24. You can't just take less, or it won't work. So this would allow for shorter trips.
vmception 6y ago
There is a lot of hearsay off switches, there is just a lot of hearsay in drug communities. For LSD, anything to get out of the rest of a 14 hour trip and come down would be an option that the market would easily gravitate toward.
tsjackson 6y ago
Psilocybin (from mushrooms) and MDMA are both fast tracked for FDA approval as adjuncts to therapy. Psychedelics are poised to become the most common psychiatric treatment in the world, with ongoing trials showing huge effects for treating PTSD, addiction, and treatment-resistant depression. Despite a lot of therapeutic promise, LSD has not received as much research attention, primarily because of its duration of effect. Having therapists present for up to 24 hours (compared to 6 for psilocybin) is prohibitively expensive. A true off switch would facilitate its study and use in treatment.
- CameronNemo 6y ago
  Results from studies that used an antipsychotic across the board would not be generalizeable to traditional experiences. At that point, why use L in the first place if older, faster acting substances are available. Mescaline and psilocybine have been used in spiritual and therapeutic settings for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Where is the interest in L coming from, if not ease of slipping it past customs and other law enforcement?

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago

It's probably a serotonin 5-HT2a antagonist, given that most of the psychedelic effects come from 5-HT2a agonism.