3 ms·

I'm not convinced of the value of an NDA in the first place. Anyone have any war stories where implementing an NDA saved them time/money/hassle/everything?

londons_explore 6y ago
NDA's are very valuable to me... They tell me it's probably not the kind of company I want to work for. I have nothing against NDA's themselves, just companies that use them widely tend to be paperwork-heavy, inflexible, slow, and all the things I don't like in an employer. The NDA is just an indicator.
mike_d 6y ago
> Anyone have any war stories where implementing an NDA saved them time/money/hassle/everything I have a very compelling story where information obtained under NDA saved me years of work and millions of dollars. Unfortunately, I cannot share the details.
- esperent 6y ago
  I have very compelling and accurate reasons for not believing you. However, I can't tell you what those reasons are either.
skissane 6y ago
Certain APIs of the IBM mainframe operating system z/OS (formerly known as MVS), IBM makes you sign an NDA before it gives you the documentation to them. For example, IBM mainframes have specialised processors called zAAPs. Physically these are just ordinary CPUs, but they've been configured in the firmware to only be allowed to run certain types of code. The reason for this, is IBM licenses the OS on a per-CPU basis, and using zAAPs instead of normal processors to run work results in lower per-CPU licensing costs. Anyway, there is an undocumented API that programs can call to offload work on to zAAPs. And IBM makes vendors sign an NDA before sharing this documentation. (If they didn't, anyone could just run arbitrary code on a zAAP, defeating the purpose of the whole thing.) z/OS also has an API called FAMS (File Attributes Management Service aka IGWFAMS). You need it to perform certain operations on files (or datasets to use the mainframe terminology.) The IBM manual which documents the FAMS API (called the "DFSMS Advanced Customization Guide") is made available to ISVs under NDA only. (As to why this is under NDA, there has never been a public explanation.) I myself have never used either of the above APIs, nor have I signed any NDA for them, nor do I know the technical details the NDAs protect. I just know they exist. And I know that quite a few IBM mainframe ISV products depend on one or the other to work.
indymike 6y ago
NDAs seem to have a few valuable effects: * You can smoke out people trying to brain!@#% you by saying use my NDA and making sure an officer of the company you are talking to signs it (lower-level employees may not be able to sign a binding agreement on behalf of the company). * I've had many a partner call me and ask if they can share something from an NDA covered meeting with a third party. It's helped surface opportunities AND threats. * I've had investors point out the NDA was a go-no-go check. No NDA, no further discussion. So, there's value there, but it is subtle.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  That is useful. Thanks. Not sure it's enough to get me to use them, but at least I can move from my stance of "anyone insisting on an NDA is an idiot" ;)

londons_explore 6y ago

NDA's are very valuable to me... They tell me it's probably not the kind of company I want to work for. I have nothing against NDA's themselves, just companies that use them widely tend to be paperwork-heavy, inflexible, slow, and all the things I don't like in an employer. The NDA is just an indicator.

mike_d 6y ago

> Anyone have any war stories where implementing an NDA saved them time/money/hassle/everything I have a very compelling story where information obtained under NDA saved me years of work and millions of dollars. Unfortunately, I cannot share the details.

esperent 6y ago
I have very compelling and accurate reasons for not believing you. However, I can't tell you what those reasons are either.

skissane 6y ago

Certain APIs of the IBM mainframe operating system z/OS (formerly known as MVS), IBM makes you sign an NDA before it gives you the documentation to them. For example, IBM mainframes have specialised processors called zAAPs. Physically these are just ordinary CPUs, but they've been configured in the firmware to only be allowed to run certain types of code. The reason for this, is IBM licenses the OS on a per-CPU basis, and using zAAPs instead of normal processors to run work results in lower per-CPU licensing costs. Anyway, there is an undocumented API that programs can call to offload work on to zAAPs. And IBM makes vendors sign an NDA before sharing this documentation. (If they didn't, anyone could just run arbitrary code on a zAAP, defeating the purpose of the whole thing.) z/OS also has an API called FAMS (File Attributes Management Service aka IGWFAMS). You need it to perform certain operations on files (or datasets to use the mainframe terminology.) The IBM manual which documents the FAMS API (called the "DFSMS Advanced Customization Guide") is made available to ISVs under NDA only. (As to why this is under NDA, there has never been a public explanation.) I myself have never used either of the above APIs, nor have I signed any NDA for them, nor do I know the technical details the NDAs protect. I just know they exist. And I know that quite a few IBM mainframe ISV products depend on one or the other to work.

indymike 6y ago

NDAs seem to have a few valuable effects: * You can smoke out people trying to brain!@#% you by saying use my NDA and making sure an officer of the company you are talking to signs it (lower-level employees may not be able to sign a binding agreement on behalf of the company). * I've had many a partner call me and ask if they can share something from an NDA covered meeting with a third party. It's helped surface opportunities AND threats. * I've had investors point out the NDA was a go-no-go check. No NDA, no further discussion. So, there's value there, but it is subtle.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
That is useful. Thanks. Not sure it's enough to get me to use them, but at least I can move from my stance of "anyone insisting on an NDA is an idiot" ;)