3 ms·

I personally don't quite agree with the thesis of the essay, but it is good, and this point is really insightful. Children have no idea what 'work' is, or why

by jariel 6y ago

I personally don't quite agree with the thesis of the essay, but it is good, and this point is really insightful. Children have no idea what 'work' is, or why it's done, or even why they are obtaining and education - in my own experience I feel as though it took 20 years of 'actual work and deprogramming' for me to finally 'get it'. I think that kids having real jobs from an early age is a really good start - doesn't matter what. Sweeping up, flipping burgers, the 'sandwich cart guy/girl at the golf club'. This is a good start. There's a young kid at my local Chinese Food shop who's maybe 8 years old, and he works there, it's a 'family business' it seems absolutely and perfectly normal, 'healthy' in fact (without knowing all the details). I'm inclined to think this kid will be a little more mature for his age than otherwise. U Waterloo has 5 year Eng programs that focus on internships, only in hindsight to I realize how infinitely valuable internships are. I think these could be made much more open.

PeterStuer 6y ago
How would you prevent an anarcho-capitalist devolution back into 19th century child labor?
- jariel 6y ago
  Because we're an evolved society and nobody is going to be pulling their kids from school to have them work in dirty factories all day? And it's illegal? Kids helping out at the family business, the pet shelter, the retirement home, at summer camp, this is all within reason. I don't even think we need 'rules', just the notion that it's possibly a good thing to do. Parents can decide as they do for literally everything else. I should add - aside from 'work' - just 'doing a project' that involves a tiny bit of planning and preparation, seeing it through to completion, with all the little challenges - this is dramatically useful. Starting at the age of 8, it would be good if kids took 2hrs a day to work on something more 'long term' where they need to learn, plan, build, accomplish, witness the fruits of their labour. And lastly - the 'harvest'. Kids in most of North America used to take a little bit of time off of school in Autumn to go back to the farm for harvest. I honestly think this is where we should get our surplus labour from. 1/2 days in the field picking berries or whatever for a week or so, it's perfect for kids, maybe basic things for 10-year-olds, but absolutely teenagers can do almost anything including running machinery.
jaclaz 6y ago
Personally I have been very lucky, my father built architectural models, my mother ran a small (artisan) shirts/nightgowns factory, both my father's workshop and my mother's small factory were situated less than 1 km from home. As a kid, in the afternoon, after school and homework, I would go to either and learn something and try and help (doing something easy that I could do). As an example at my mother's there were some kind of dressing gowns that used buttons covered with the same fabric that were to be assembled with a small press. (think today of allowing a 10 year old kid to operate a small manual press) or at my father's there was sometimes the need to make trees (in scale) with some wire, glue and cotton or to sand down a piece of plyboard before painting it. I learned that work was something needed and that if you love your work (as my parents did) it is rarely heavy or tiring, that if there is a deadline, it must be met, that you need to talk to both customers and suppliers, that there are rules and bureaucarcy and you have to deal with them. I can see the difference in mentality against that of some of my cousins whose parents had (possibly "better") office jobs, their parents basically left in the morning and were not seen again till almost dinner time. They had no idea what their parents did, which kind of problems they had to deal with every day, they knew vaguely that they worked in a bank or in an office, that was all.
- jariel 6y ago
  So this is a great example - I'm not sure if what you witnesses was so much 'work' in the 'the assuming responsibility for society' kind of thing, however the 'artisinal craft' aspect is just as priceless: the breadth and depth of knowledge, skills, planning, problem solving, the diligence. And yes, you're right, I think kids could be naturally more involved in something that 'doesn't feel like work'. But 'office jobs' are important too!

by jariel 6y ago

PeterStuer 6y ago

How would you prevent an anarcho-capitalist devolution back into 19th century child labor?

jariel 6y ago
Because we're an evolved society and nobody is going to be pulling their kids from school to have them work in dirty factories all day? And it's illegal? Kids helping out at the family business, the pet shelter, the retirement home, at summer camp, this is all within reason. I don't even think we need 'rules', just the notion that it's possibly a good thing to do. Parents can decide as they do for literally everything else. I should add - aside from 'work' - just 'doing a project' that involves a tiny bit of planning and preparation, seeing it through to completion, with all the little challenges - this is dramatically useful. Starting at the age of 8, it would be good if kids took 2hrs a day to work on something more 'long term' where they need to learn, plan, build, accomplish, witness the fruits of their labour. And lastly - the 'harvest'. Kids in most of North America used to take a little bit of time off of school in Autumn to go back to the farm for harvest. I honestly think this is where we should get our surplus labour from. 1/2 days in the field picking berries or whatever for a week or so, it's perfect for kids, maybe basic things for 10-year-olds, but absolutely teenagers can do almost anything including running machinery.

jaclaz 6y ago

Personally I have been very lucky, my father built architectural models, my mother ran a small (artisan) shirts/nightgowns factory, both my father's workshop and my mother's small factory were situated less than 1 km from home. As a kid, in the afternoon, after school and homework, I would go to either and learn something and try and help (doing something easy that I could do). As an example at my mother's there were some kind of dressing gowns that used buttons covered with the same fabric that were to be assembled with a small press. (think today of allowing a 10 year old kid to operate a small manual press) or at my father's there was sometimes the need to make trees (in scale) with some wire, glue and cotton or to sand down a piece of plyboard before painting it. I learned that work was something needed and that if you love your work (as my parents did) it is rarely heavy or tiring, that if there is a deadline, it must be met, that you need to talk to both customers and suppliers, that there are rules and bureaucarcy and you have to deal with them. I can see the difference in mentality against that of some of my cousins whose parents had (possibly "better") office jobs, their parents basically left in the morning and were not seen again till almost dinner time. They had no idea what their parents did, which kind of problems they had to deal with every day, they knew vaguely that they worked in a bank or in an office, that was all.

jariel 6y ago
So this is a great example - I'm not sure if what you witnesses was so much 'work' in the 'the assuming responsibility for society' kind of thing, however the 'artisinal craft' aspect is just as priceless: the breadth and depth of knowledge, skills, planning, problem solving, the diligence. And yes, you're right, I think kids could be naturally more involved in something that 'doesn't feel like work'. But 'office jobs' are important too!