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> FWIW the specific mistake you're making is thinking about this in a way that overemphasizes the context of the school system. I am? I have spent literally th

> FWIW the specific mistake you're making is thinking about this in a way that overemphasizes the context of the school system. I am? I have spent literally thousands of hours volunteering for a free online education platform that operates entirely independently from school systems. Although some schools do use it. Some of my family was home schooled. Along with that I have actual teaching experience outside the public school system. I still don't consider myself an expert because I know far less about teaching than I do about my main gig: programming and technology. But claiming I am thinking about this in a specific way is a wrong assumption on your part. > There’s also no contradiction between learning through games and learning by doing. Everything we do in real life has game-like properties, you just have to find them. The article is about video games, not games. For some things there is a contradiction. If you want to learn to ride a horse or play guitar then a guitar or a real horse is the game. A video game will never come anywhere close to just picking up a real guitar or riding a real horse.

cloverich 6y ago
I picked up a real guitar for years, mastered quite a few techniques but never learned to see the music on the fretboard. I suspect a good game would have got me over that hump quite easily. The last time I rode a horse it bucked me off; maybe a game would not help me so much there. So yes, for _some_ things there is a contradiction but I don't think that is a useful point. The arguments are not diluted by "Video games don't cover 100% of things you could learn".
- tchaffee 6y ago
  There is a game to memorize the fretboard. As it turned out, memorizing the fretboard, while somewhat useful, was not what helped me see music on the fretboard. My guitar teacher is responsible for that insight by insisting I focus on the relationship between notes, and over many songs. Where C is on the guitar neck is nowhere near as important as the fact that the C I am playing is a minor third to the root note I will end the phrase on. His insistence was mysterious to me until it finally clicked. This is why a video game will never replace a teacher who understands the end place of wisdom they are trying to bring you to. It's a useful point to consider just how little or how much video games can cover. If video games can only ever be the most effective route to learn 10% of what we need to learn, then that's less interesting to spend time and energy on compared to if the number is 50% or 80%.

cloverich 6y ago

I picked up a real guitar for years, mastered quite a few techniques but never learned to see the music on the fretboard. I suspect a good game would have got me over that hump quite easily. The last time I rode a horse it bucked me off; maybe a game would not help me so much there. So yes, for _some_ things there is a contradiction but I don't think that is a useful point. The arguments are not diluted by "Video games don't cover 100% of things you could learn".

tchaffee 6y ago
There is a game to memorize the fretboard. As it turned out, memorizing the fretboard, while somewhat useful, was not what helped me see music on the fretboard. My guitar teacher is responsible for that insight by insisting I focus on the relationship between notes, and over many songs. Where C is on the guitar neck is nowhere near as important as the fact that the C I am playing is a minor third to the root note I will end the phrase on. His insistence was mysterious to me until it finally clicked. This is why a video game will never replace a teacher who understands the end place of wisdom they are trying to bring you to. It's a useful point to consider just how little or how much video games can cover. If video games can only ever be the most effective route to learn 10% of what we need to learn, then that's less interesting to spend time and energy on compared to if the number is 50% or 80%.