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I have a hard time swallowing that the pay for remote workers should be based on the employee’s cost of living. My degree is in business and I very clearly reca

I have a hard time swallowing that the pay for remote workers should be based on the employee’s cost of living. My degree is in business and I very clearly recall the lesson on if it was ethical to pay someone with kids more (ie, at raise time) than someone without. The conclusion was that the value the employee brought was consistent and you can’t price in their financial decisions; that it was an old school thing to give a raise for having a kid. If I am a remote worker and I work in downtown SF or in a flyover state does not change the value I bring. If the bean counters are not giving a raise when you have a new kid, they shouldn’t be cutting your pay when you move to a lower cost area. It is all smoke an mirrors to improve the financials of the company. I’d be more for it if they just said so instead of lying and hiding it behind other reasons.

dangus 6y ago
But of course, the salary of employees is not purely based on the value they provide. It's also based on availability of labor. COVID-19 doesn't really change the equation. Remote workers are already paid based on the prevailing wages in their locality. Someone who was working in the bay area and now has been given free rein to go permanently remote is simply new to the remote work system, and they absolutely should expect a lower wage if they decide to live elsewhere.
- sethammons 6y ago
  Supply and demand, of course. If you are in they bay area and already working remotely, how is that materially different if you move an hour away? Or 3 hours away? Or to the next state or two over? You were already in the “remote work” category. In fact, you were already working at that company at a given wage. I plain just don’t see the difference in the same remote worker in the next suburb over vs next city over vs next state over (granted similar working hours / timezones).
  - austhrow743 6y ago
    If you're in the Bay Area then you can take Bay Area jobs that are not remote.
- Joof 6y ago
  Just to throw in a wrench, I live in a van and I'm only very rarely in the same place for more than a month. My expenses don't really change depending on where I park.
  - fragmede 6y ago
    How does it not? How much is a gallon of gas? How much does a dozen eggs cost? What's the cost of a Big Mac? How about a meal at a local restaurant? How much are you having to run your AC or a heater? It may not be the same comparison as India vs the US, which can differ by an order of magnitude, but with gas still more than $3.00 in San Francisco, California vs less than $1.80 in Jackson, Mississippi, I must be missing something on why your expenses don't change.
    - Joof 6y ago
      The only place I've seen fast food cost more is in mountain towns -- taco bell was about .50 more. I have no A/C, run solar power and my heater is extremely efficient. Diesel usually sticks to 2.50ish everywhere right now, but California does get up to 4.00. so that's an extra expense of about $80 a month? The cost of goods is so low, it barely registers. Housing tends to be the problem.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
You would now be competing with all the other people with the same skillset as you in the low cost-of-living area that you are working remotely from. If you ask for more than the local market rate, why would an employer not just pick one of them instead?
DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
> that it was an old school thing to give a raise for having a kid. The old school thing was to fire the worker for having kids, or even for getting married (see: 1950s-1970s air hostesses and business secretaries).
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flak48 6y ago
Employees working in the India/UK/EU office for an American company already make much less than their US colleagues for the same work. If one were to measure the cost of living in real terms in a place like India beyond lower rent and cost of groceries(reduced life expectancy due to pollution and higher rate of road accidents for example), it's even worse. On the other hand just getting into a FANG/unicorn in India is enough to defacto push you out of the middle class by any measure. I guess my point is most folks never had it as good as some others for the same work even before remote took off. It all boils down to the local market for labour unfortunately. If your job doesn't require you to show up in a Bay Area office, you're competing with a much larger talent pool. There are a lot more people who can solve inane Leetcode problems outside the Bay Area / whatever American $CITY

dangus 6y ago

But of course, the salary of employees is not purely based on the value they provide. It's also based on availability of labor. COVID-19 doesn't really change the equation. Remote workers are already paid based on the prevailing wages in their locality. Someone who was working in the bay area and now has been given free rein to go permanently remote is simply new to the remote work system, and they absolutely should expect a lower wage if they decide to live elsewhere.

sethammons 6y ago
Supply and demand, of course. If you are in they bay area and already working remotely, how is that materially different if you move an hour away? Or 3 hours away? Or to the next state or two over? You were already in the “remote work” category. In fact, you were already working at that company at a given wage. I plain just don’t see the difference in the same remote worker in the next suburb over vs next city over vs next state over (granted similar working hours / timezones).
- austhrow743 6y ago
  If you're in the Bay Area then you can take Bay Area jobs that are not remote.
Joof 6y ago
Just to throw in a wrench, I live in a van and I'm only very rarely in the same place for more than a month. My expenses don't really change depending on where I park.
- fragmede 6y ago
  How does it not? How much is a gallon of gas? How much does a dozen eggs cost? What's the cost of a Big Mac? How about a meal at a local restaurant? How much are you having to run your AC or a heater? It may not be the same comparison as India vs the US, which can differ by an order of magnitude, but with gas still more than $3.00 in San Francisco, California vs less than $1.80 in Jackson, Mississippi, I must be missing something on why your expenses don't change.
  - Joof 6y ago
    The only place I've seen fast food cost more is in mountain towns -- taco bell was about .50 more. I have no A/C, run solar power and my heater is extremely efficient. Diesel usually sticks to 2.50ish everywhere right now, but California does get up to 4.00. so that's an extra expense of about $80 a month? The cost of goods is so low, it barely registers. Housing tends to be the problem.

ThrowawayR2 6y ago

You would now be competing with all the other people with the same skillset as you in the low cost-of-living area that you are working remotely from. If you ask for more than the local market rate, why would an employer not just pick one of them instead?

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago

> that it was an old school thing to give a raise for having a kid. The old school thing was to fire the worker for having kids, or even for getting married (see: 1950s-1970s air hostesses and business secretaries).

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flak48 6y ago

Employees working in the India/UK/EU office for an American company already make much less than their US colleagues for the same work. If one were to measure the cost of living in real terms in a place like India beyond lower rent and cost of groceries(reduced life expectancy due to pollution and higher rate of road accidents for example), it's even worse. On the other hand just getting into a FANG/unicorn in India is enough to defacto push you out of the middle class by any measure. I guess my point is most folks never had it as good as some others for the same work even before remote took off. It all boils down to the local market for labour unfortunately. If your job doesn't require you to show up in a Bay Area office, you're competing with a much larger talent pool. There are a lot more people who can solve inane Leetcode problems outside the Bay Area / whatever American $CITY