4 ms·

We (German family) went to Death Valley as tourists in the 80s and we're puzzled by the obsession everyone had with carrying enough water but of course, being G

We (German family) went to Death Valley as tourists in the 80s and we're puzzled by the obsession everyone had with carrying enough water but of course, being German, we complied. It wasn't terribly warm, it was December, and later that day a record breaking thunderstorm dumped on us. We stayed at Furnace Creek, which was amazing, but the road flooded and we had to backtrack the next day instead of passing through. Now, after decades of living in the western US I understand how easily you can die in the wilderness but at the time it seemed exaggerated.

NikolaeVarius 6y ago
I'm puzzled by the "european" take on wilderness situations. Even when going on "normal" hikes i.e. actively maintained trails, I always take 24-48 hours of emergency water/supplies because even maintained trails can be dangerous. Is this viewpoint specifically because of lack of context as how far away help can be? Though thinking about it, I think you average American city dweller probably would have a same mentality
- zwieback 6y ago
  Yeah, I'd say for Germany that's spot on. Other European countries have plenty of ways to die in the wilderness.
- cameldrv 6y ago
  There really is essentially no American style wilderness in Europe. There’s almost nowhere where you are more than 20 miles from a village or at least a road that people drive down regularly.
  - Dahoon 6y ago
    That doesn't hold true in Northern Scandinavia as quite a few lost people could verify if they hadn't been lost while on a hike. It is easy to find a 20 miles radius where no people come regularly in Sweden for example. Edit: spelling
    - cameldrv 6y ago
      Fair enough, but perhaps one of those exception proves the rule situations. Either way, the reason these places are the way they are is because they are naturally uninhabitable. Northern Scandinavia because it's too cold, and huge swaths of the American West because there's no water. Going into Death Valley without a ton of water is like going into the Lapland with no winter coat because your car has a heater.
- pjc50 6y ago
  In much of Europe it would be a big challenge to get more than ten miles away from an inhabited building .. and the places that you can are then themselves busy tourist spots. Even when you do the terrain isn't anywhere near as inhospitable as the American desert.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Not sure what parts of Europe you know, but everything above the arctic circle in Scandinavia, obviously in winter, the eastern alps (cell phone coverage in the western part is too good), etc... you are more than 10 miles away from people. That being said, even 1 mile is enough.
    - sampo 6y ago
      > Scandinavia, the eastern alps At least in there places, you're never far from a water source. Maybe carrying water is a bit difficult concept for Northern Europeans, as you can always find drinkable water in the nature.
      - hef19898 6y ago
        Yeah, true that. And heat.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  When I was a freshman in college in Arizona, I went on a short "rock climbing" trip, nothing that strenuous or requiring equipment or particular experience, just clambering over large rocks on a warm and sunny, but not scorching day. We were told to bring water, but I only took a small water bottle, and it didn't last that long. I was kind of shocked when my vision just went all blank and red with some random sparkles. One moment I could see, the next I was fully conscious but blinded. I wasn't that far away from other people, but I wasn't right next to anyone. Luckily I wasn't that far from rocks that provided shadow where I could get out of the sun, but I was afraid that by doing so, I would be hiding from anyone who could find me. And briefly I had no idea if my condition was permanent, I was going to die, or what. Anyway, I wasn't a European or city dweller, just a clueless kid not used to the desert and/or outdoor activities much. I think a lot of people do dumb things, and some survive and learn, and some don't.
  - klyrs 6y ago
    I grew up with some great education about wilderness survival. I've made my fair share of mistakes, for sure. Did a stint in search and rescue; learned a ton about whole classes of mistakes I'd never considered. When I hear people gushing about colonizing Mars, I think about how deadly parts of our own planet are. I just shake my head. Probably 99.9% of our population is completely unprepared for that level of hardship. I know I'm not.
    - _curious_ 6y ago
      99.9% of our current population will never be faced with the option to even visit Mars
- hef19898 6y ago
  I wouldn't call it "European", but yeah, we don't have that kind of true wilderness in central Europe. Scandinavia is a different story. Let's say it is more a city dwelling issue. It also depends on what kind of nature you have around you. In my case, mountains. Others have deserts, forests, jungles, arctic... Some principles transfer well, others not so much.

NikolaeVarius 6y ago

I'm puzzled by the "european" take on wilderness situations. Even when going on "normal" hikes i.e. actively maintained trails, I always take 24-48 hours of emergency water/supplies because even maintained trails can be dangerous. Is this viewpoint specifically because of lack of context as how far away help can be? Though thinking about it, I think you average American city dweller probably would have a same mentality

zwieback 6y ago
Yeah, I'd say for Germany that's spot on. Other European countries have plenty of ways to die in the wilderness.
cameldrv 6y ago
There really is essentially no American style wilderness in Europe. There’s almost nowhere where you are more than 20 miles from a village or at least a road that people drive down regularly.
- Dahoon 6y ago
  That doesn't hold true in Northern Scandinavia as quite a few lost people could verify if they hadn't been lost while on a hike. It is easy to find a 20 miles radius where no people come regularly in Sweden for example. Edit: spelling
  - cameldrv 6y ago
    Fair enough, but perhaps one of those exception proves the rule situations. Either way, the reason these places are the way they are is because they are naturally uninhabitable. Northern Scandinavia because it's too cold, and huge swaths of the American West because there's no water. Going into Death Valley without a ton of water is like going into the Lapland with no winter coat because your car has a heater.
pjc50 6y ago
In much of Europe it would be a big challenge to get more than ten miles away from an inhabited building .. and the places that you can are then themselves busy tourist spots. Even when you do the terrain isn't anywhere near as inhospitable as the American desert.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Not sure what parts of Europe you know, but everything above the arctic circle in Scandinavia, obviously in winter, the eastern alps (cell phone coverage in the western part is too good), etc... you are more than 10 miles away from people. That being said, even 1 mile is enough.
  - sampo 6y ago
    > Scandinavia, the eastern alps At least in there places, you're never far from a water source. Maybe carrying water is a bit difficult concept for Northern Europeans, as you can always find drinkable water in the nature.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Yeah, true that. And heat.
perl4ever 6y ago
When I was a freshman in college in Arizona, I went on a short "rock climbing" trip, nothing that strenuous or requiring equipment or particular experience, just clambering over large rocks on a warm and sunny, but not scorching day. We were told to bring water, but I only took a small water bottle, and it didn't last that long. I was kind of shocked when my vision just went all blank and red with some random sparkles. One moment I could see, the next I was fully conscious but blinded. I wasn't that far away from other people, but I wasn't right next to anyone. Luckily I wasn't that far from rocks that provided shadow where I could get out of the sun, but I was afraid that by doing so, I would be hiding from anyone who could find me. And briefly I had no idea if my condition was permanent, I was going to die, or what. Anyway, I wasn't a European or city dweller, just a clueless kid not used to the desert and/or outdoor activities much. I think a lot of people do dumb things, and some survive and learn, and some don't.
- klyrs 6y ago
  I grew up with some great education about wilderness survival. I've made my fair share of mistakes, for sure. Did a stint in search and rescue; learned a ton about whole classes of mistakes I'd never considered. When I hear people gushing about colonizing Mars, I think about how deadly parts of our own planet are. I just shake my head. Probably 99.9% of our population is completely unprepared for that level of hardship. I know I'm not.
  - _curious_ 6y ago
    99.9% of our current population will never be faced with the option to even visit Mars
hef19898 6y ago
I wouldn't call it "European", but yeah, we don't have that kind of true wilderness in central Europe. Scandinavia is a different story. Let's say it is more a city dwelling issue. It also depends on what kind of nature you have around you. In my case, mountains. Others have deserts, forests, jungles, arctic... Some principles transfer well, others not so much.