4 ms·

"I want the (free) benefits without any of the downsides", this reads to me. Particularly as it gets into condemning "neoliberalism" in response to being remind

"I want the (free) benefits without any of the downsides", this reads to me. Particularly as it gets into condemning "neoliberalism" in response to being reminded that Google Maps is not compulsory.

BolexNOLA 6y ago
I’ve never liked this argument. The Google ecosystem is more or less required these days unless you are a little more tech savvy than the average person, and your job/education doesn’t require it, AND you have the patience to stitch together a bunch of (maybe) trustworthy services. It’s like saying, “if you don’t like your ISP, then find another one.” Then when they’re all doing the same crap going, “well then don’t use the Internet.”
- leetcrew 6y ago
  I don't really buy this. if your school/employer uses google products, then yeah, you're SOL. but otherwise you can get pretty far using apple products and duckduckgo. I guess if you count sending emails to people with gmail accounts as "using the google ecosystem", it's pretty much unavoidable.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    So many websites require Google scripts to operate, even if you personally use alternatives whenever possible you are stuck in their ecosystem.
  - searchableguy 6y ago
    Wait till you find out about school forcing surveillance tech from the big companies. You don't have a choice whether you are at home or in school. During the lockdown, schools decided to force kids to install spyware and malware on their own devices. Literal hijacking of everything you do on the device and then pushed a COC on what you can and cannot do on that device. In developed countries or rich places, you might afford privacy but free services or traps offered by big companies see widespread use in developing countries. Schooling situation is worse and they are profit seekers who will sacrifice privacy for saving up few $$$. Privacy is not something to be bought, it's a right. To give you one example, google analytics and ads. An average person might be able to block that on desktop by simply installing a plugin but on phone, there is no way to install a plugin for your browser. Solutions like [0] blokada are not well known. Most people don't know how to configure a proxy, change dns and they won't install a different browser. And then there are apps which are way worse than websites. There is a reason why companies push you so hard to use the app. Reddit, Imgur, twitter, instagram, facebook etc. Why app? Also, windows, google captcha, amp, search, youtube etc. You can't escape them. 0] https://blokada.org/index.html https://blokada.org/index.html
    - gorhill 6y ago
      > there is no way to install a plugin for your browser Firefox for Android blocks trackers by default and supports installing extensions.
      - searchableguy 6y ago
        Yes, kiwi browser and yandex does too despite being chromium. I just mean the majority of browsers that normal users will have. If someone is using Firefox, they are already changing their defaults and are most likely aware of the privacy issues.
  - BolexNOLA 6y ago
    > if your school/employer uses google products...you’re SOL Yes. That is literally what I said. That applies to millions of people.
ianleeclark 6y ago
Google Maps may not be compulsory, but people may not be aware of what they're engaging in by using those services.
- tunap 6y ago
  Nor are they even remotely aware of they are using(& consenting to) Goog api's & analytics baked into their .gov sites.
titzer 6y ago
But Google Location Services is installed on almost every single Android handset. Do you have any clue what this thing does? It inserts itself as the location service provider for the entire device and it absolutely uploads your "anonymized" location information, along with detailed sensor traces, to Google multiple times per hour. How can you audit or control this data? You can't. How can you audit that software that processes this data? You can't. It's the worst kind of closed source. That's just mobile. Google and its ad partners track you everywhere you go on the internet.
hedora 6y ago
> Maps is not compulsory Great, show me the button on my car that disables its cell modem and location tracking features. Presumably, it is also legal to remove the license plates, since those are being scanned, located and dumped into commercial databases. Many parts of the US don’t even have sidewalks or bike accessible roads (and Uber/Lyft track you), so there’s no reliable privacy-preserving alternative.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  One of my thoughts is in theory credit agencies are heavily regulated. That needs to be extended to any business that aggregates data on people as it's primary business. And regulators should be able to tell them no. As in, no you can't collect that information. And no that individual can't work for you. You need signed authorization to share that data. Each time.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

"I want the (free) benefits without any of the downsides", this reads to me. Particularly as it gets into condemning "neoliberalism" in response to being reminded that Google Maps is not compulsory.

BolexNOLA 6y ago

I’ve never liked this argument. The Google ecosystem is more or less required these days unless you are a little more tech savvy than the average person, and your job/education doesn’t require it, AND you have the patience to stitch together a bunch of (maybe) trustworthy services. It’s like saying, “if you don’t like your ISP, then find another one.” Then when they’re all doing the same crap going, “well then don’t use the Internet.”

leetcrew 6y ago
I don't really buy this. if your school/employer uses google products, then yeah, you're SOL. but otherwise you can get pretty far using apple products and duckduckgo. I guess if you count sending emails to people with gmail accounts as "using the google ecosystem", it's pretty much unavoidable.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  So many websites require Google scripts to operate, even if you personally use alternatives whenever possible you are stuck in their ecosystem.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  Wait till you find out about school forcing surveillance tech from the big companies. You don't have a choice whether you are at home or in school. During the lockdown, schools decided to force kids to install spyware and malware on their own devices. Literal hijacking of everything you do on the device and then pushed a COC on what you can and cannot do on that device. In developed countries or rich places, you might afford privacy but free services or traps offered by big companies see widespread use in developing countries. Schooling situation is worse and they are profit seekers who will sacrifice privacy for saving up few $$$. Privacy is not something to be bought, it's a right. To give you one example, google analytics and ads. An average person might be able to block that on desktop by simply installing a plugin but on phone, there is no way to install a plugin for your browser. Solutions like [0] blokada are not well known. Most people don't know how to configure a proxy, change dns and they won't install a different browser. And then there are apps which are way worse than websites. There is a reason why companies push you so hard to use the app. Reddit, Imgur, twitter, instagram, facebook etc. Why app? Also, windows, google captcha, amp, search, youtube etc. You can't escape them. 0] https://blokada.org/index.html https://blokada.org/index.html
  - gorhill 6y ago
    > there is no way to install a plugin for your browser Firefox for Android blocks trackers by default and supports installing extensions.
    - searchableguy 6y ago
      Yes, kiwi browser and yandex does too despite being chromium. I just mean the majority of browsers that normal users will have. If someone is using Firefox, they are already changing their defaults and are most likely aware of the privacy issues.
- BolexNOLA 6y ago
  > if your school/employer uses google products...you’re SOL Yes. That is literally what I said. That applies to millions of people.

ianleeclark 6y ago

Google Maps may not be compulsory, but people may not be aware of what they're engaging in by using those services.

tunap 6y ago
Nor are they even remotely aware of they are using(& consenting to) Goog api's & analytics baked into their .gov sites.

titzer 6y ago

But Google Location Services is installed on almost every single Android handset. Do you have any clue what this thing does? It inserts itself as the location service provider for the entire device and it absolutely uploads your "anonymized" location information, along with detailed sensor traces, to Google multiple times per hour. How can you audit or control this data? You can't. How can you audit that software that processes this data? You can't. It's the worst kind of closed source. That's just mobile. Google and its ad partners track you everywhere you go on the internet.

hedora 6y ago

> Maps is not compulsory Great, show me the button on my car that disables its cell modem and location tracking features. Presumably, it is also legal to remove the license plates, since those are being scanned, located and dumped into commercial databases. Many parts of the US don’t even have sidewalks or bike accessible roads (and Uber/Lyft track you), so there’s no reliable privacy-preserving alternative.

Gibbon1 6y ago
One of my thoughts is in theory credit agencies are heavily regulated. That needs to be extended to any business that aggregates data on people as it's primary business. And regulators should be able to tell them no. As in, no you can't collect that information. And no that individual can't work for you. You need signed authorization to share that data. Each time.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]