4 ms·

Well yes, but their fate was sealed when they accidentally went off road. I preface "known" with, "the most obviously correct road for current conditions" The

Well yes, but their fate was sealed when they accidentally went off road. I preface "known" with, "the most obviously correct road for current conditions" The people in the article already were going down roads that were not obviously compatible with their vehicle before they got lost.

ghaff 6y ago
Fair enough. I have been on roads in that area of the country where at some point I went "Nope. I have neither the skills nor the vehicle for this" and turned around. (With very considerable difficulty in one case I remember.) It appears in this case that the family probably felt very pressed for time so they kept on. Which is the sort of thing that often factors into events like this.
- rconti 6y ago
  The "very considerable difficulty" part is key, as I'm sure you realize. So often as roads get worse, we feel lucky we made it past that obstacle "that one time" and can only imagine it gets better if you press on, because you're not sure you can make it back the way you came. Related, the Death Valley Camry story https://davidsworlddotorg.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/stranded-in-death-valley-part-i-of-iii/ https://davidsworlddotorg.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/stranded-...
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Of course, one of the problems with a lot of these roads is that they're barely one vehicle wide with a rock face on one side and sharp dropoff on the other. In this one particular case, I had driven up to a cemetery on a road that wasn't too bad and I decided to continue on up to a ghost town which was a few more miles as I recall. The road worsened considerably and I had neither the vehicle nor the comfort level to inch along for miles of white-knuckle driving never mind potentially encountering another vehicle. Fortunately I eventually came across a slight widening that allowed me to do something like a 30 point turn to get turned around. I'm actually usually more comfortable on the way back because I can be reasonably confident that if I could get up I can get down. Whereas I'm more concerned that things have just started to get bad on the way up. One thing that I think throws people off too is that, even if you do your homework, a lot of guides and web sites are written by people who have been driving their properly-equipped Jeep Rubicons around the deserts and mountains for years--which can make things seem a lot more straightforward to amateurs with basically street cars than they are.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    That seems to be a general theme, so. More often that not that's how people end up in bad spots in the Alps. That, and weather. Add to is faulty assumptions about the environment and ones skills, and it turns into a bad combination. Edit: One intense read! And it reminded me of a safety tip for long distance hiking. Always tell the people at the place you leave where you are going and when you want to be their. If you don't show up, search teams know where to look. Also, turn around sooner rather than later. Not blaming the tourists, so. I ended up, young and stupid, in places in Alps I neither should have been nor wanted to end up in. Stuff like that just adds up, if you aren't super careful it is very easy to miss the point of no return.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    OMG. Their original plan was bat-shit insane and it went downhill from there. ADDED: I think Google Maps has gotten better at simply not offering really questionable routes as an option. At least that seemed to be the case when I played around with it the last time I read the German tourist story. I think you can force it if there is no alternative to get to a specific location but it tries hard to avoid the very iffy routes. And once they did get stuck, they behaved sensibly which--perhaps along with a bit of luck--got them out of things.

ghaff 6y ago

Fair enough. I have been on roads in that area of the country where at some point I went "Nope. I have neither the skills nor the vehicle for this" and turned around. (With very considerable difficulty in one case I remember.) It appears in this case that the family probably felt very pressed for time so they kept on. Which is the sort of thing that often factors into events like this.

rconti 6y ago
The "very considerable difficulty" part is key, as I'm sure you realize. So often as roads get worse, we feel lucky we made it past that obstacle "that one time" and can only imagine it gets better if you press on, because you're not sure you can make it back the way you came. Related, the Death Valley Camry story https://davidsworlddotorg.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/stranded-in-death-valley-part-i-of-iii/ https://davidsworlddotorg.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/stranded-...
- ghaff 6y ago
  Of course, one of the problems with a lot of these roads is that they're barely one vehicle wide with a rock face on one side and sharp dropoff on the other. In this one particular case, I had driven up to a cemetery on a road that wasn't too bad and I decided to continue on up to a ghost town which was a few more miles as I recall. The road worsened considerably and I had neither the vehicle nor the comfort level to inch along for miles of white-knuckle driving never mind potentially encountering another vehicle. Fortunately I eventually came across a slight widening that allowed me to do something like a 30 point turn to get turned around. I'm actually usually more comfortable on the way back because I can be reasonably confident that if I could get up I can get down. Whereas I'm more concerned that things have just started to get bad on the way up. One thing that I think throws people off too is that, even if you do your homework, a lot of guides and web sites are written by people who have been driving their properly-equipped Jeep Rubicons around the deserts and mountains for years--which can make things seem a lot more straightforward to amateurs with basically street cars than they are.
- hef19898 6y ago
  That seems to be a general theme, so. More often that not that's how people end up in bad spots in the Alps. That, and weather. Add to is faulty assumptions about the environment and ones skills, and it turns into a bad combination. Edit: One intense read! And it reminded me of a safety tip for long distance hiking. Always tell the people at the place you leave where you are going and when you want to be their. If you don't show up, search teams know where to look. Also, turn around sooner rather than later. Not blaming the tourists, so. I ended up, young and stupid, in places in Alps I neither should have been nor wanted to end up in. Stuff like that just adds up, if you aren't super careful it is very easy to miss the point of no return.
- ghaff 6y ago
  OMG. Their original plan was bat-shit insane and it went downhill from there. ADDED: I think Google Maps has gotten better at simply not offering really questionable routes as an option. At least that seemed to be the case when I played around with it the last time I read the German tourist story. I think you can force it if there is no alternative to get to a specific location but it tries hard to avoid the very iffy routes. And once they did get stuck, they behaved sensibly which--perhaps along with a bit of luck--got them out of things.