5 ms·

Article headline is misleading, the article itself provides more context and is less sensationalized. I believe that this is happening in NZ and per the articl

by nchase 6y ago

Article headline is misleading, the article itself provides more context and is less sensationalized. I believe that this is happening in NZ and per the article, Italy. But in other places (USA and Brazil come to mind) it’s a whole different story. Seems dangerous to suggest it could just die out, while cases are on the rise.

hanniabu 6y ago
Yeah, it assumes having a competent government that actually believes in science.
- imchillyb 6y ago
  It also assumes, contrary to gathered data, that immunity lasts more than 3 months. There are now several studies that point to a short-lived immunity after fighting off this virus. So far, the community of virologists and immunologists are warning that there will be a 2nd wave, possibly a 3rd and 4th wave as well, of this virus. The reasons are manifold and not at-all to do with governmental response. No matter a government's response this is a novel virus, hey whaddoyaknow that's even what we're calling it, and it acts in manners that other viruses do not. Human bodies react to this virus differently than they do to other viruses. To claim that governments are to blame is being disingenuous at best, and an outright lie at the worst.
  - maverick2007 6y ago
    In case anyone reading this is like me and hadn't heard the 3 month immunity window news, here's an Ars article that does a pretty good job summarizing what it is and what it means: https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/immunity-to-covid-19-may-wane-just-2-3-months-after-infection-study-suggests/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/immunity-to-covid-19...
    - lambdadmitry 6y ago
      Trouble is the article misses a very important point: that's just antibody (B-cell mediated) immunity. There is also T-cell immunity, which is harder to quantify so it doesn't get much attention, but we can be quite sure that it plays important role because many people who recovered from COVID don't develop effective neutralising antibodies at all. To recover from a disease like this you have to develop an effective immune response, so if it's not antibodies, it has to be T-cell immunity. Moreover, even for antibody immunity it's not the whole story, because it's normal and expected for antibody count to decline with time — we have memory cells that ensure rapid production of the relevant antibody when the same antigene is presented. It's basically the case of paying attention to something we can measure just because we can measure it.
- ddelt 6y ago
  Living in the US, every day I wish I'd suddenly wake up to a government which places a greater degree of importance on science and the protection and benevolence of the greatest amount of human lives, both in the US and in the rest of the world. But right now, seems like science will continue to take a backseat to US corporate economic interests.
  - thecreamedcorn 6y ago
    Science is so muddled and confusing. I'm sure even the top doctors and biologists don't agree on how to handle the virus because one study says you x is more effective than y but another says the opposite. In addition most "science" is funded by done large corporations or by people with ulterior motives. Science is not the word of God; it's a craft that is extremely prone to error, and I personally don't want my gov placing any more value on it than it is right now.
    - eckmLJE 6y ago
      ^ This is how civilization will end.
      - thecreamedcorn 6y ago
        If you disagree, you should at least articulate why.
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      The real world is muddled and confusing... science in its proper form observes that world, attempts to find the underlying facts and make our understanding of the muddled confusion clearer. It takes a lot of observing, thinking, and testing to arrive at a decent picture of what wasn't known before. > Science is not the word of God No, and that's a good thing. Scientific progress depends on revising knowledge as more facts accumulate and point in different directions. Until there's enough information to illuminate things well, there are a lot of questions, missteps, etc. I would want the government, private institutions, and every individual to lean MORE on actual science than they ever have, and to understand its benefits AND limitations, because that is how the world learns and improves.
jgalt212 6y ago
> But in other places (USA and Brazil come to mind) it’s a whole different story. Seems dangerous to suggest it could just die out, while cases are on the rise. Both things can be true, and general the less fatal a virus is, the more contagious it is. i.e. dead people can't infect live people. I mean, other than in 28 Days Later.

by nchase 6y ago

hanniabu 6y ago

Yeah, it assumes having a competent government that actually believes in science.

imchillyb 6y ago
It also assumes, contrary to gathered data, that immunity lasts more than 3 months. There are now several studies that point to a short-lived immunity after fighting off this virus. So far, the community of virologists and immunologists are warning that there will be a 2nd wave, possibly a 3rd and 4th wave as well, of this virus. The reasons are manifold and not at-all to do with governmental response. No matter a government's response this is a novel virus, hey whaddoyaknow that's even what we're calling it, and it acts in manners that other viruses do not. Human bodies react to this virus differently than they do to other viruses. To claim that governments are to blame is being disingenuous at best, and an outright lie at the worst.
- maverick2007 6y ago
  In case anyone reading this is like me and hadn't heard the 3 month immunity window news, here's an Ars article that does a pretty good job summarizing what it is and what it means: https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/immunity-to-covid-19-may-wane-just-2-3-months-after-infection-study-suggests/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/immunity-to-covid-19...
  - lambdadmitry 6y ago
    Trouble is the article misses a very important point: that's just antibody (B-cell mediated) immunity. There is also T-cell immunity, which is harder to quantify so it doesn't get much attention, but we can be quite sure that it plays important role because many people who recovered from COVID don't develop effective neutralising antibodies at all. To recover from a disease like this you have to develop an effective immune response, so if it's not antibodies, it has to be T-cell immunity. Moreover, even for antibody immunity it's not the whole story, because it's normal and expected for antibody count to decline with time — we have memory cells that ensure rapid production of the relevant antibody when the same antigene is presented. It's basically the case of paying attention to something we can measure just because we can measure it.
ddelt 6y ago
Living in the US, every day I wish I'd suddenly wake up to a government which places a greater degree of importance on science and the protection and benevolence of the greatest amount of human lives, both in the US and in the rest of the world. But right now, seems like science will continue to take a backseat to US corporate economic interests.
- thecreamedcorn 6y ago
  Science is so muddled and confusing. I'm sure even the top doctors and biologists don't agree on how to handle the virus because one study says you x is more effective than y but another says the opposite. In addition most "science" is funded by done large corporations or by people with ulterior motives. Science is not the word of God; it's a craft that is extremely prone to error, and I personally don't want my gov placing any more value on it than it is right now.
  - eckmLJE 6y ago
    ^ This is how civilization will end.
    - thecreamedcorn 6y ago
      If you disagree, you should at least articulate why.
  - zentiggr 6y ago
    The real world is muddled and confusing... science in its proper form observes that world, attempts to find the underlying facts and make our understanding of the muddled confusion clearer. It takes a lot of observing, thinking, and testing to arrive at a decent picture of what wasn't known before. > Science is not the word of God No, and that's a good thing. Scientific progress depends on revising knowledge as more facts accumulate and point in different directions. Until there's enough information to illuminate things well, there are a lot of questions, missteps, etc. I would want the government, private institutions, and every individual to lean MORE on actual science than they ever have, and to understand its benefits AND limitations, because that is how the world learns and improves.

jgalt212 6y ago

> But in other places (USA and Brazil come to mind) it’s a whole different story. Seems dangerous to suggest it could just die out, while cases are on the rise. Both things can be true, and general the less fatal a virus is, the more contagious it is. i.e. dead people can't infect live people. I mean, other than in 28 Days Later.