4 ms·

You're right in that there are more learning resources - ebooks and lectures galore! However, the complexity of software systems has increased quite a bit too.

by iqster 16y ago

You're right in that there are more learning resources - ebooks and lectures galore! However, the complexity of software systems has increased quite a bit too. This complexity, and the ensuing layers of abstraction are enemies to learning IMHO. Here's a personal anecdote ... I remember having a vague understanding of MFC for a number of years, until one day I came across a manual of MFC 1.0. For whatever reason, I went through the old book and came out with a strong understanding of main class structure and motivation behind the framework. I was a bit surprised that the tomes on the subject (and I had many of the latest at that time) were thick but lack some of the essential ideas.

kenjackson 16y ago
But web development, while very abstract, is very simple. Sure there are tons of frameworks, but you can still do great stuff with just css/html/jquery/server. And the amount of stuff on the web makes it that much easier.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  Still, you have to understand a lot of very abstract stuff to get what _ means in Jquery. There is a world of difference between that and 8-bit BASIC. While learning 8-bit BASIC may not be the optimal path between a neophyte and a computer scientist, it strikes a nice balance between high and low level.
- dedward 16y ago
  Just for debate sake (because I tend to feel as you do) letm e take the other side (although we could be arguing semantics around the world simple.... so leaving that aside) Is making a web page simple? Yes. Is making a web page do cool stuff simple? Yes. And it's way cooler than the logo and basic (and worse) of my youth. IS "web development" simple? Not in the slightest, as a generalization. The web is the UI component of an application. That application could be as complex as any other - but instead of a simple visual toolkit for our GUI, we have to understand a bundle of technologies that is constantly changing (HTML, CSS, JS), plus the end user platform (browser) and all it's quirks.... now throw mobile in,now throw in that some understanding of the network itself is required. Thing are more open now, information is more readily available, and there is certainly a lot to choose from. Further, there's the audience - you can now publish your apps to the world immediately, you don't need to get recognized and published on paper or through a publisher. So a simple, silly little game hacked up in javascript/html5 by a kid (yay kid! You did more than I did at you age, keep it up!) has more impact and visibility than did similar feats by similar kids back in the 8-bit days when they figured out how to make my CRT do things God didn't intend it to do all for my amusement.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Web development as a full blown software engineering profession is not simple. But what I meant is that I think I'd find it just as easy, if not easier, to teach a 12 year old basic web development; and produce something they'd find interesting, while being educational, as it would be to do this with 8bit BASIC. And the tools now are so much better. I remember as a kid using graph paper to draw sprites, and the converting the images to hex streams by hand. Not mentally challenging, but tedious and error prone.

by iqster 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

But web development, while very abstract, is very simple. Sure there are tons of frameworks, but you can still do great stuff with just css/html/jquery/server. And the amount of stuff on the web makes it that much easier.

rbanffy 16y ago
Still, you have to understand a lot of very abstract stuff to get what _ means in Jquery. There is a world of difference between that and 8-bit BASIC. While learning 8-bit BASIC may not be the optimal path between a neophyte and a computer scientist, it strikes a nice balance between high and low level.
dedward 16y ago
Just for debate sake (because I tend to feel as you do) letm e take the other side (although we could be arguing semantics around the world simple.... so leaving that aside) Is making a web page simple? Yes. Is making a web page do cool stuff simple? Yes. And it's way cooler than the logo and basic (and worse) of my youth. IS "web development" simple? Not in the slightest, as a generalization. The web is the UI component of an application. That application could be as complex as any other - but instead of a simple visual toolkit for our GUI, we have to understand a bundle of technologies that is constantly changing (HTML, CSS, JS), plus the end user platform (browser) and all it's quirks.... now throw mobile in,now throw in that some understanding of the network itself is required. Thing are more open now, information is more readily available, and there is certainly a lot to choose from. Further, there's the audience - you can now publish your apps to the world immediately, you don't need to get recognized and published on paper or through a publisher. So a simple, silly little game hacked up in javascript/html5 by a kid (yay kid! You did more than I did at you age, keep it up!) has more impact and visibility than did similar feats by similar kids back in the 8-bit days when they figured out how to make my CRT do things God didn't intend it to do all for my amusement.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Web development as a full blown software engineering profession is not simple. But what I meant is that I think I'd find it just as easy, if not easier, to teach a 12 year old basic web development; and produce something they'd find interesting, while being educational, as it would be to do this with 8bit BASIC. And the tools now are so much better. I remember as a kid using graph paper to draw sprites, and the converting the images to hex streams by hand. Not mentally challenging, but tedious and error prone.