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Also as humans get richer, they almost never consider themselves ‘rich’. If you’re born into affluence, it’s almost impossible to comprehend this. I’ve watched

Also as humans get richer, they almost never consider themselves ‘rich’. If you’re born into affluence, it’s almost impossible to comprehend this. I’ve watched people living in a rich western democracy, who are rich by the standards of their host country, travel to India and see the grinding poverty of so many people’s lives. Their assessment was not that they themselves are rich, but that those people are poor. It’s also incredibly difficult for those living higher up on Maslow’s hierarchy to see that it’s their entire level of society that is - in aggregate - a force for negative environmental impact. Individuals won’t admit to this, and will instead say it’s fine because they sort their recycling and only have one car and... but the macro scale is ignored because the self-defense mechanism won’t allow it to be fully understood or admitted to. Those who manage to admit and realise this is a problem may try to help - or at least not contribute - by doing their best, but usually this means keeping as clean as they can personally, while still taking advantage of most of the trappings of their bubble. Il not saying they’re bad people or they shouldn’t make an effort, but ten people picking up litter versus ten million dropping it is never going to work out.

logicchains 6y ago
>It’s also incredibly difficult for those living higher up on Maslow’s hierarchy to see that it’s their entire level of society that is - in aggregate - a force for negative environmental impact. Individuals won’t admit to this Or maybe they just don't care? It's not exactly a stretch to imagine people value their wellbeing in the present over some impact to the environment. Most people don't even care about other people enough to give to charity, let alone care about the environment.
- tokamak-teapot 6y ago
  I’m sure if they were able to understand their own position - and had enough confidence that it was possible for them to contribute to realistic change for the better - that they would show that they do actually care. Until there is understanding and some route to channeling the will of the larger populations of affluent societies, however, I think we are stuck in a downward spiral. The only realistic scenario I can conceive of is that eventually enough damage will reflect back on the affluent to effect a change in mindset. I regretfully believe that the poor all over the world will suffer a great deal before this begins to occur.
eikenberry 6y ago
I think a lot of this is related to class. In the US at least rich is sometimes used in relation to money/lifestyle and sometimes (usually?) used to refer to class. Class wise it refers to upper-class or people who don't have to work. So if you asked one of these affluent tourists if they are rich, they might say no as in 'no, I work for a living'.

logicchains 6y ago

>It’s also incredibly difficult for those living higher up on Maslow’s hierarchy to see that it’s their entire level of society that is - in aggregate - a force for negative environmental impact. Individuals won’t admit to this Or maybe they just don't care? It's not exactly a stretch to imagine people value their wellbeing in the present over some impact to the environment. Most people don't even care about other people enough to give to charity, let alone care about the environment.

tokamak-teapot 6y ago
I’m sure if they were able to understand their own position - and had enough confidence that it was possible for them to contribute to realistic change for the better - that they would show that they do actually care. Until there is understanding and some route to channeling the will of the larger populations of affluent societies, however, I think we are stuck in a downward spiral. The only realistic scenario I can conceive of is that eventually enough damage will reflect back on the affluent to effect a change in mindset. I regretfully believe that the poor all over the world will suffer a great deal before this begins to occur.

eikenberry 6y ago

I think a lot of this is related to class. In the US at least rich is sometimes used in relation to money/lifestyle and sometimes (usually?) used to refer to class. Class wise it refers to upper-class or people who don't have to work. So if you asked one of these affluent tourists if they are rich, they might say no as in 'no, I work for a living'.