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Interesting stuff. My major problem with advertising is the old classic: as soon as your revenue comes from ads, your customers are not your users/viewers/read

Interesting stuff. My major problem with advertising is the old classic: as soon as your revenue comes from ads, your customers are not your users/viewers/readers, they're your advertisers. And that promotes a mentality that isn't very customer-friendly - even if you think you can steer against that, it has a tendancy to sneak in through the side window. (I speak from experience here. It's easy to start thinking "Hmm, could we get an extra page view there?" instead of "Hmm, how can we make this better?") There's a reason that HBO have a string of awesome, critically-acclaimed series. It's because they're very good at what they do. But I suspect the revenue model might also have something to do with it.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
I think you have a very good point. I've found that whenever I start doing that, the reader experience suffers, and that causes ad revenue to go down. Of course, I create personalized content with my name on it, so I have a more personal relationship to my readers than an e-how would, I guess. People keep wanting to split the income stream from the reader experience, and I just don't think that's possible. Sure, you might imagine you can do it, you might take a look at ad revenue and somehow think the reasons for it are separate from the feel of your content, but it never works that way. This same false dichotomy is in place no matter what business you are in. There is always a conflict between watching the bottom line and simply doing things that make you or the customer feel good. Being able to balance these two things, it's the art of a good businessman, no? A good businessperson creates a multi-faceted work of art that maximizes customer value while still providing some kind of trade that allows the business to keep helping the customer. I think if anything, the problem is that if you were running a coffee shop and physically met with your customers, you'd be a lot more sensitive to quality issues and understand where they fit in with your whole business model. But on the web, it's all sort of faceless, and that encourages thinking of people as abstractions to be manipulated. This type of thinking always loses when placed against better standards (but quite frankly it might take a decade or more for that to happen)
JonM 16y ago
Good point, I think there is a balance though.... For example, on a site with only one advert per page, I don't think there is any harm in having a new page load rather than an ajax call (which arguably would be the better "user experience"). What shouldn't be encouraged is sending users "around the houses" to get an extra couple of advertising impressions.... which if we were honest is likely to floor the CTR anyway. The key in most instances is making sure your page loads fast, and let your users get to what they want quickly.
- stylejam 16y ago
  Well, if you're choosing a suboptimal solution (a new page) over an optimal solution (the ajax call) there's definitely something wrong ... FWIW, I strongly believe that a worst UX will bring less conversions, but I don't have any data to bring.
  - JonM 16y ago
    Suboptimal from what perspective? Server processing time & data transfer - maybe, user experience - not necessarily. Ajax calls aren't by more optimal by definition, it depends on the context. Agree that worse UX will frustrate users making them less likely to spend time on the site and have less interaction. For the advertising that is sold on my site, the CPM is determined by the number and quality of Unique Visitors and volume is determined by Page Impressions. So it's good to have a large number of page impressions, but actually I need to build my audience (UVs) which is more difficult (to a point).
corin_ 16y ago
I replied to you in a bigger comment covering other areas too, but would be interested to hear from you on whether what I said makes sense with regards to the focusing on advertisers rather than readers aspect.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago

I think you have a very good point. I've found that whenever I start doing that, the reader experience suffers, and that causes ad revenue to go down. Of course, I create personalized content with my name on it, so I have a more personal relationship to my readers than an e-how would, I guess. People keep wanting to split the income stream from the reader experience, and I just don't think that's possible. Sure, you might imagine you can do it, you might take a look at ad revenue and somehow think the reasons for it are separate from the feel of your content, but it never works that way. This same false dichotomy is in place no matter what business you are in. There is always a conflict between watching the bottom line and simply doing things that make you or the customer feel good. Being able to balance these two things, it's the art of a good businessman, no? A good businessperson creates a multi-faceted work of art that maximizes customer value while still providing some kind of trade that allows the business to keep helping the customer. I think if anything, the problem is that if you were running a coffee shop and physically met with your customers, you'd be a lot more sensitive to quality issues and understand where they fit in with your whole business model. But on the web, it's all sort of faceless, and that encourages thinking of people as abstractions to be manipulated. This type of thinking always loses when placed against better standards (but quite frankly it might take a decade or more for that to happen)

JonM 16y ago

Good point, I think there is a balance though.... For example, on a site with only one advert per page, I don't think there is any harm in having a new page load rather than an ajax call (which arguably would be the better "user experience"). What shouldn't be encouraged is sending users "around the houses" to get an extra couple of advertising impressions.... which if we were honest is likely to floor the CTR anyway. The key in most instances is making sure your page loads fast, and let your users get to what they want quickly.

stylejam 16y ago
Well, if you're choosing a suboptimal solution (a new page) over an optimal solution (the ajax call) there's definitely something wrong ... FWIW, I strongly believe that a worst UX will bring less conversions, but I don't have any data to bring.
- JonM 16y ago
  Suboptimal from what perspective? Server processing time & data transfer - maybe, user experience - not necessarily. Ajax calls aren't by more optimal by definition, it depends on the context. Agree that worse UX will frustrate users making them less likely to spend time on the site and have less interaction. For the advertising that is sold on my site, the CPM is determined by the number and quality of Unique Visitors and volume is determined by Page Impressions. So it's good to have a large number of page impressions, but actually I need to build my audience (UVs) which is more difficult (to a point).

corin_ 16y ago

I replied to you in a bigger comment covering other areas too, but would be interested to hear from you on whether what I said makes sense with regards to the focusing on advertisers rather than readers aspect.