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This comment is the reason why we need to rethink our current culture of censorship and social media outrage. It explains a non-trivial logical connection, sho

This comment is the reason why we need to rethink our current culture of censorship and social media outrage. It explains a non-trivial logical connection, showing how something that could look unpopular from the surface, would pay off in the long run. Except you cannot make comments like this in public anymore. Because all it takes is an angry mob leader shouting "%USERNAME% is %CLICHE%ist" and that's it. Your employer fires you, your friends abandon you, you are socially bankrupt in an instant. There are many bright people our there with great perspectives to share. Except they have to maintain radio silence, because they are not willing to take that risk. So the only voices to be heard are the most extreme ones that have nothing to lose. I sincerely hope we can overcome this and get people to discuss problems and work together on solving them before our civilization sinks into medieval barbarism.

comex 6y ago
I don't see anything in the parent comment that's even remotely controversial. Almost everyone across the political spectrum agrees that we should spend more on education, at least in the abstract. There's plenty of disagreement on the details, but I don't see anything in the comment that stakes out a strong position on any of the major issues. Perhaps I'm missing something.
- nyczomg 6y ago
  You’re not missing something. But that’s the point. You read the whole comment and interpreted it in good faith. What the comment you are replying to is saying, is that it is easy to cherry pick statements out of nuanced comments that do not hold up well on their own. So unfortunately many people are afraid of making nuanced points online, and stick to banal platitudes that can’t be easily misinterpreted in bad faith.
- hintymad 6y ago
  I was actually arguing that we should spend differently, not necessarily more, in our education system.
- core-questions 6y ago
  Here's the problem: you cannot guarantee equal outcomes across intersectional groups. Period. Not going to happen. A hundred years of psychometric research backs this up; there are simply differences that cannot be papered over by adjusting metrics and applying equalizing coefficients. A highly effective education system that really gets the best out of every person involved is also going to be selective, it is going to group people into different classes based on ability, and the resulting output is going to be highly offensive to the militant people who right now are literally doing their best to take over American cities. So no, we can't fix this problem. We can spend more on it, but ultimately all of that money is just IOUs against a decaying system that demands everyone be equal, even if that lowest common denominator means all but the super-rich end up living in a favela within a few decades.
  - comex 6y ago
    In short, you're claiming that some races or genders are inherently more capable than others, independent of all 'nurture' factors? If so, you're wrong, but feel free to clarify what "hundred years of psychometric research" you're referring to.
    - core-questions 6y ago
      How about you show me an IQ study with a big cohort that shows otherwise? You're the one asserting something that doesn't line up with anyone's experience with zero proof.
    - candiodari 6y ago
      No we are claiming that we need $4309582309239 extra spending on the Governor's wife's tennis partners' baker's niece's program to totally-not-put-all-those-dollars-back-into-the-governors-electoral-budget. That will fix it. What I mean to say is that 99.9% of those programs are just abusing the system (even if 10% of them started out with honest intentions).
jhardy54 6y ago
Explaining my downvote: I'm thoroughly annoyed at all of the versions of this comment on HN lately. It adds nothing to the discussion, and derails the conversation we were having to talk about some vague injustice where People These Days don't let you say Stuff Like This. Can you point to something you've said that's resulted in the problem you've described?
- tekknik 6y ago
  Does it have to be something parent specifically said? If not look around the news?
  - jhardy54 6y ago
    Sorry, based on your comment history I don't think I'd like to discuss anything with you. Cheers.
    - tekknik 6y ago
      So because someone has a counter opinion from yours to refuse debate but stand on a public forum without desire to be challenged? Wow.
      - jhardy54 6y ago
        I'm happy to have discussions with people I disagree with, but generally once you're down the "poverty is good, actually" [0] rabbit hole I think a discussion would be a waste of both of our time. I think you should be embarrassed at edgelord takes like "I don’t see the value an impoverished set of humans can provide" [1], and I don't have any interest in talking with far-right extremists. Bye. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591648 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23599938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23599938
        tekknik 6y ago
        Read the rest of the comment, which is the point you’re failing to realize. You’re judging without understanding the complete picture. So again read that comment again and read it from a logical standpoint instead of emotional. It literally says the next sentence they have value in some situation and your failure to understand that some poor bread maker can’t have anything valid to say when writing software or building a rocket. That’s my opinion, change it if you want with facts. Not everybody that disagrees with you is a right wing extremist. Some of us are capable of discussing actual facts and values. And you also pointed to a comment made after your comment so how this can be influential in your first comment suggests you have some ability to travel through time.
x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
I'm not sure this comment contributes to the discussion at hand at all. Other than to try to derail the convo into some dialog about "censorship".

comex 6y ago

I don't see anything in the parent comment that's even remotely controversial. Almost everyone across the political spectrum agrees that we should spend more on education, at least in the abstract. There's plenty of disagreement on the details, but I don't see anything in the comment that stakes out a strong position on any of the major issues. Perhaps I'm missing something.

nyczomg 6y ago
You’re not missing something. But that’s the point. You read the whole comment and interpreted it in good faith. What the comment you are replying to is saying, is that it is easy to cherry pick statements out of nuanced comments that do not hold up well on their own. So unfortunately many people are afraid of making nuanced points online, and stick to banal platitudes that can’t be easily misinterpreted in bad faith.
hintymad 6y ago
I was actually arguing that we should spend differently, not necessarily more, in our education system.
core-questions 6y ago
Here's the problem: you cannot guarantee equal outcomes across intersectional groups. Period. Not going to happen. A hundred years of psychometric research backs this up; there are simply differences that cannot be papered over by adjusting metrics and applying equalizing coefficients. A highly effective education system that really gets the best out of every person involved is also going to be selective, it is going to group people into different classes based on ability, and the resulting output is going to be highly offensive to the militant people who right now are literally doing their best to take over American cities. So no, we can't fix this problem. We can spend more on it, but ultimately all of that money is just IOUs against a decaying system that demands everyone be equal, even if that lowest common denominator means all but the super-rich end up living in a favela within a few decades.
- comex 6y ago
  In short, you're claiming that some races or genders are inherently more capable than others, independent of all 'nurture' factors? If so, you're wrong, but feel free to clarify what "hundred years of psychometric research" you're referring to.
  - core-questions 6y ago
    How about you show me an IQ study with a big cohort that shows otherwise? You're the one asserting something that doesn't line up with anyone's experience with zero proof.
  - candiodari 6y ago
    No we are claiming that we need $4309582309239 extra spending on the Governor's wife's tennis partners' baker's niece's program to totally-not-put-all-those-dollars-back-into-the-governors-electoral-budget. That will fix it. What I mean to say is that 99.9% of those programs are just abusing the system (even if 10% of them started out with honest intentions).

jhardy54 6y ago

Explaining my downvote: I'm thoroughly annoyed at all of the versions of this comment on HN lately. It adds nothing to the discussion, and derails the conversation we were having to talk about some vague injustice where People These Days don't let you say Stuff Like This. Can you point to something you've said that's resulted in the problem you've described?

tekknik 6y ago
Does it have to be something parent specifically said? If not look around the news?
- jhardy54 6y ago
  Sorry, based on your comment history I don't think I'd like to discuss anything with you. Cheers.
  - tekknik 6y ago
    So because someone has a counter opinion from yours to refuse debate but stand on a public forum without desire to be challenged? Wow.
    - jhardy54 6y ago
      I'm happy to have discussions with people I disagree with, but generally once you're down the "poverty is good, actually" [0] rabbit hole I think a discussion would be a waste of both of our time. I think you should be embarrassed at edgelord takes like "I don’t see the value an impoverished set of humans can provide" [1], and I don't have any interest in talking with far-right extremists. Bye. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23591648 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23599938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23599938
      - tekknik 6y ago
        Read the rest of the comment, which is the point you’re failing to realize. You’re judging without understanding the complete picture. So again read that comment again and read it from a logical standpoint instead of emotional. It literally says the next sentence they have value in some situation and your failure to understand that some poor bread maker can’t have anything valid to say when writing software or building a rocket. That’s my opinion, change it if you want with facts. Not everybody that disagrees with you is a right wing extremist. Some of us are capable of discussing actual facts and values. And you also pointed to a comment made after your comment so how this can be influential in your first comment suggests you have some ability to travel through time.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago

I'm not sure this comment contributes to the discussion at hand at all. Other than to try to derail the convo into some dialog about "censorship".