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This post is at odds with the fact that the military teaches stricter rules of engagement than police forces. There may be a culture problem in the force but th

This post is at odds with the fact that the military teaches stricter rules of engagement than police forces. There may be a culture problem in the force but this post is hysteria. Police deal with violent criminals who have no regard for police life; in fact often they are explicitly against police. They're going to learn techniques appropriate for dealing with such people. Some of those techniques will be violent and resemble "military" tactics, but that's only because the military also deals with violent adversaries.

catalogia 6y ago
> Background: Despite veterans' preference hiring policies by law enforcement agencies, no studies have examined the nature or effects of military service or deployments on health outcomes. This study will examine the effect of military veteran status and deployment history on law enforcement officer (LEO)-involved shootings. > Methods: Ten years of data were extracted from Dallas Police Department records. LEOs who were involved in a shooting in the past 10 years were frequency matched on sex to LEOs never involved in a shooting. Military discharge records were examined to quantify veteran status and deployment(s). Multivariable logistic regression was used to estimate the effect of veteran status and deployment history on officer-involved shooting involvement. > Results: Records were abstracted for 516 officers. In the adjusted models, veteran LEOs who were not deployed were significantly more likely to be involved in a shooting than non-veteran officers. Veterans with a deployment history were 2.9 times more likely to be in a shooting than non-veteran officers. > Conclusions: Military veteran status, regardless of deployment history, is associated with increased odds of shootings among LEOs. Future studies should identify mechanisms that explain this relationship, and whether officers who experienced firsthand combat exposure experience greater odds of shooting involvement. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30281075/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30281075/
TaylorAlexander 6y ago
I mean, I’ve been hearing a lot of cases where the police killed people who were definitely not “violent criminals who have no regard for police life”. Brianna Taylor’s boyfriend wasn’t a violent criminal when he fired at the police. “ A defence attorney for Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, says he fired in self-defence because police did not announce themselves and that he believed they were breaking in to the home.” The police did a no-knock raid unannounced on the wrong home, then shot EMT Brianna Taylor 8 times. Those violent techniques are at issue here. They seem to be violations of 5th and/or 14th amendment rights and clearly not appropriate. https://lailasnews.com/international/brianna-taylor-death-briana-taylor-killed-by-police-shooting-update/ https://lailasnews.com/international/brianna-taylor-death-br...
- squarefoot 6y ago
  Other reports also tell the cops weren't wearing uniforms, which in this case should exonerate the boyfriend of any guilt.
- 6AA4FD 6y ago
  Just a heads up I think her name is spelled Breonna[0]. Not a knock against the rest of your post, I like it. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor
  - TaylorAlexander 6y ago
    Thank you, that was my mistake. My comment is too old for me to edit but I will make sure to get this right next time. Solidarity!
runawaybottle 6y ago
This is a hot take, and I’ll readily admit to it: I’m sucker for true crime, so I watch a lot of interrogations. There are very specific tactics that are used to psychologically build up egos, barrage an ego, frame things in different ways that absolve the perpetrator, standard god cop / bad cop, and so forth. Murder police do this with murder suspects. The thing is, murder police are super trained to deal with murders. I think street beat cops are similar to script kiddies. They don’t understand infrastructure and networking, and mostly know code monkey usage of scripts. On small enough targets, you can start to believe you are king shit doing whatever you are doing. Until it goes too far, and the big boys show up and assess you. That’s when we find out your script kiddie cops have little to no training on de-escalation, have little to no understanding of the community, think establishing authority and show of force in any situation is professional, think defending their ego in situations has a place, think bringing respect to the uniform in a literal ongoing situation that could turn sideways has a place, and so on. That’s what we’re finding out, they are mostly amateurs. They are not super trained to deal with their job. Guy clearly drunk and asleep in a car? First time you’ve ever dealt with this? Ended in a fatality, eh? Lots of training there going over that basic scenario ...
- metrokoi 6y ago
  A taser is a deadly weapon under Georgia law, so the officer was in fact following his training by responding with lethal force when the taser was pointed at him by Rayshard. > Earlier this month, Howard charged six Atlanta police officers with using excessive force in pulling two college students out of a car during a protest. In justifying charges of aggravated assault against some of the officers, Howard said a Taser is considered a deadly weapon under Georgia law. [0] Rayshard was also breaking Georgia DUI law by drinking in his parked car. He also likely drove there drunk, so investigating was ethical. Drunk driving kills over 10,000 people every year. > Similarly, if the keys are in the ignition but the car is not yet turned on, this could be charged as a parked car DUI. Additionally, if the person is in the car, in the driver's seat, with the keys in their hand, but not in the ignition, this can be charged as a parked car DUI. [1] [0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/rayshard-brooks-atlanta-police-garrett-rolfe-felony-murder-what-now/3194657001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/raysha... [1] https://www.duigeorgia.com/parked-car-dui https://www.duigeorgia.com/parked-car-dui
kelnos 6y ago
The problem is that these violent criminals are in the extreme minority; while certainly police need to be trained to handle them, they also need to be trained to handle the other 99% of the people they will encounter, who are not violent. But they aren't, so they revert to treating everyone as if they were a violent criminal fractions of a second away from attacking them. That's why we have the problem of police brutality in the first place.
- metrokoi 6y ago
  The majority of victims of police brutality (at least deaths by police, of course there are other forms of police brutality but killings by police is what the current conversation is about) are violent criminals. Of the ~1000 people killed by police in 2019 538 were armed with a gun, 159 with a knife, 60 with a vehicle, and 63 with another weapon. 41 were unarmed, 23 had a toy weapon, and 49 is unknown. [0] The majority of people that cops interact with overall are not violent criminals, but the majority of people subject to the type of police brutality which is overwhelmingly controlling the conversation (i.e. killings by police) are violent criminals. [0] https://www.statista.com/chart/5211/us-citizens-killed-by-police-2016/ https://www.statista.com/chart/5211/us-citizens-killed-by-po...
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    This is what they claimed. These aren't objectively verifiable facts and as people have been learning lately, they constantly lie about such things.
  - vertex-four 6y ago
    "They have a gun", the statement, is different from "they have a gun", the fact. There's no actual oversight to these reports - the closest we have is the Washington Post performing the intensive work of collecting reports from individual police departments, but they're unable to verify the reports. In other countries like England & Wales, when a police officer seriously injures or kills someone, there's a formal investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, an independent body at a centralised Government level with powers equivalent to a police officer for matters they investigate. They also usually provide public reports, for example, https://policeconduct.gov.uk/recommendations/police-response-report-man-firearm-humberside-police-december-2019 https://policeconduct.gov.uk/recommendations/police-response.... (Also note the limited use of force - two shots, one of which struck - and immediate care.) It's still not perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than what the US does.

catalogia 6y ago

> Background: Despite veterans' preference hiring policies by law enforcement agencies, no studies have examined the nature or effects of military service or deployments on health outcomes. This study will examine the effect of military veteran status and deployment history on law enforcement officer (LEO)-involved shootings. > Methods: Ten years of data were extracted from Dallas Police Department records. LEOs who were involved in a shooting in the past 10 years were frequency matched on sex to LEOs never involved in a shooting. Military discharge records were examined to quantify veteran status and deployment(s). Multivariable logistic regression was used to estimate the effect of veteran status and deployment history on officer-involved shooting involvement. > Results: Records were abstracted for 516 officers. In the adjusted models, veteran LEOs who were not deployed were significantly more likely to be involved in a shooting than non-veteran officers. Veterans with a deployment history were 2.9 times more likely to be in a shooting than non-veteran officers. > Conclusions: Military veteran status, regardless of deployment history, is associated with increased odds of shootings among LEOs. Future studies should identify mechanisms that explain this relationship, and whether officers who experienced firsthand combat exposure experience greater odds of shooting involvement. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30281075/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30281075/

TaylorAlexander 6y ago

I mean, I’ve been hearing a lot of cases where the police killed people who were definitely not “violent criminals who have no regard for police life”. Brianna Taylor’s boyfriend wasn’t a violent criminal when he fired at the police. “ A defence attorney for Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, says he fired in self-defence because police did not announce themselves and that he believed they were breaking in to the home.” The police did a no-knock raid unannounced on the wrong home, then shot EMT Brianna Taylor 8 times. Those violent techniques are at issue here. They seem to be violations of 5th and/or 14th amendment rights and clearly not appropriate. https://lailasnews.com/international/brianna-taylor-death-briana-taylor-killed-by-police-shooting-update/ https://lailasnews.com/international/brianna-taylor-death-br...

squarefoot 6y ago
Other reports also tell the cops weren't wearing uniforms, which in this case should exonerate the boyfriend of any guilt.
6AA4FD 6y ago
Just a heads up I think her name is spelled Breonna[0]. Not a knock against the rest of your post, I like it. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor
- TaylorAlexander 6y ago
  Thank you, that was my mistake. My comment is too old for me to edit but I will make sure to get this right next time. Solidarity!

runawaybottle 6y ago

This is a hot take, and I’ll readily admit to it: I’m sucker for true crime, so I watch a lot of interrogations. There are very specific tactics that are used to psychologically build up egos, barrage an ego, frame things in different ways that absolve the perpetrator, standard god cop / bad cop, and so forth. Murder police do this with murder suspects. The thing is, murder police are super trained to deal with murders. I think street beat cops are similar to script kiddies. They don’t understand infrastructure and networking, and mostly know code monkey usage of scripts. On small enough targets, you can start to believe you are king shit doing whatever you are doing. Until it goes too far, and the big boys show up and assess you. That’s when we find out your script kiddie cops have little to no training on de-escalation, have little to no understanding of the community, think establishing authority and show of force in any situation is professional, think defending their ego in situations has a place, think bringing respect to the uniform in a literal ongoing situation that could turn sideways has a place, and so on. That’s what we’re finding out, they are mostly amateurs. They are not super trained to deal with their job. Guy clearly drunk and asleep in a car? First time you’ve ever dealt with this? Ended in a fatality, eh? Lots of training there going over that basic scenario ...

metrokoi 6y ago
A taser is a deadly weapon under Georgia law, so the officer was in fact following his training by responding with lethal force when the taser was pointed at him by Rayshard. > Earlier this month, Howard charged six Atlanta police officers with using excessive force in pulling two college students out of a car during a protest. In justifying charges of aggravated assault against some of the officers, Howard said a Taser is considered a deadly weapon under Georgia law. [0] Rayshard was also breaking Georgia DUI law by drinking in his parked car. He also likely drove there drunk, so investigating was ethical. Drunk driving kills over 10,000 people every year. > Similarly, if the keys are in the ignition but the car is not yet turned on, this could be charged as a parked car DUI. Additionally, if the person is in the car, in the driver's seat, with the keys in their hand, but not in the ignition, this can be charged as a parked car DUI. [1] [0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/rayshard-brooks-atlanta-police-garrett-rolfe-felony-murder-what-now/3194657001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/raysha... [1] https://www.duigeorgia.com/parked-car-dui https://www.duigeorgia.com/parked-car-dui

kelnos 6y ago

The problem is that these violent criminals are in the extreme minority; while certainly police need to be trained to handle them, they also need to be trained to handle the other 99% of the people they will encounter, who are not violent. But they aren't, so they revert to treating everyone as if they were a violent criminal fractions of a second away from attacking them. That's why we have the problem of police brutality in the first place.

metrokoi 6y ago
The majority of victims of police brutality (at least deaths by police, of course there are other forms of police brutality but killings by police is what the current conversation is about) are violent criminals. Of the ~1000 people killed by police in 2019 538 were armed with a gun, 159 with a knife, 60 with a vehicle, and 63 with another weapon. 41 were unarmed, 23 had a toy weapon, and 49 is unknown. [0] The majority of people that cops interact with overall are not violent criminals, but the majority of people subject to the type of police brutality which is overwhelmingly controlling the conversation (i.e. killings by police) are violent criminals. [0] https://www.statista.com/chart/5211/us-citizens-killed-by-police-2016/ https://www.statista.com/chart/5211/us-citizens-killed-by-po...
- guerrilla 6y ago
  This is what they claimed. These aren't objectively verifiable facts and as people have been learning lately, they constantly lie about such things.
- vertex-four 6y ago
  "They have a gun", the statement, is different from "they have a gun", the fact. There's no actual oversight to these reports - the closest we have is the Washington Post performing the intensive work of collecting reports from individual police departments, but they're unable to verify the reports. In other countries like England & Wales, when a police officer seriously injures or kills someone, there's a formal investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, an independent body at a centralised Government level with powers equivalent to a police officer for matters they investigate. They also usually provide public reports, for example, https://policeconduct.gov.uk/recommendations/police-response-report-man-firearm-humberside-police-december-2019 https://policeconduct.gov.uk/recommendations/police-response.... (Also note the limited use of force - two shots, one of which struck - and immediate care.) It's still not perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than what the US does.