5 ms·

You gotta do both. Research, analyze, digest, and then execute. With time, you can reduce the duration of the cycle. Taking the first step often requires a lot

by gfodor 6y ago

You gotta do both. Research, analyze, digest, and then execute. With time, you can reduce the duration of the cycle. Taking the first step often requires a lot of research and thinking, and then a lot of execution to go from zero to one. Then, iterate, with shorter cycles. Failing to think is as much a problem as failing to execute, you have to balance it.

travisjungroth 6y ago
> Taking the first step often requires a lot of research and thinking I generally agree with your comment, but strongly disagree with this part. You will have much more success if you take this first step as soon as possible. No research, no thinking. And a “real thing” first step. You want to start running? Put on some shoes and go for a run. Don’t sign up for a race, don’t look up running tips, don’t buy nice shoes. Just go run for a bit. Coding? Pop open repl.it. Scuba? Get your head under water. Even for things that might be out of reach like flying an airplane, read up on something specific like how to land. With your very first step out of the way, you can then start thinking a bit more.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  I tend to agree with this line of thinking... reminds me of Mike Tyson’s admonition “everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” You want to take that first punch as soon as possible.
- Kye 6y ago
  As someone who digs inversion as a way to get started on things and avoid the big blockers: at least look up basics of how to avoid and recognize injuries while running. Injuries will stop you more firmly than analysis paralysis. You'll mostly discover the right things by doing, but the wrong things can hold you back, and they're often well-documented. Example: guitar players who discover music theory by plucking and poking until things sound good, but mess up their hands with bad form.
- superhuzza 6y ago
  >You will have much more success if you take this first step as soon as possible. No research, no thinking. I'd be careful with this advice. Almost every time I climb outside I see groups who clearly have very little idea of what they're doing, because all the small but deadly details are wrong - no stopper knots, not backing up rappels, building weird anchors, having 1 point of failure, etc. From their perspective, they're just getting out there and taking those first steps - but with an inadequate understanding of how much risk they've taken on. They don't even realize they're doing anything wrong. It's really bad and regularly leads to serious accidents. To actually climb outside they need mentorship or a bunch of research and practice, both of which take a while to acquire. They should definitely not start by doing the thing.
  - travisjungroth 6y ago
    I’d say they weren’t doing what I suggested (that could still mean my advice is bad). Before they actually started climbing the rock, they had to do a bunch of other stuff. They at least got their hands on some gear, probably drove and hiked. And this is partly what gets them into trouble. Fooling yourself into doing something unsafe generally requires a bit of work. I think there’s a safety in doing what’s immediately around you. For most people, it would be really hard to kill themselves rock climbing in the next 15 minutes, but very easy to do it next weekend. My hope for someone doing what I suggest would be something like “I’m gonna go hang from that pull-up bar / low beam / jungle gym on and off for 5 minutes.” Then they research how to actually start rock climbing safely.
- bsder 6y ago
  > You want to start running? Put on some shoes and go for a run. I agree, but not for things like this which require significant physical exertion. Many physical things have components that, if done incorrectly, are injurious. And they're not always obvious. Guitar, for example, has barre chords. And EVERYBODY always teaches them to beginners at the first fret so you can do an F chord. This is LUDICROUS. That is the maximum tension point on the guitar with respect to barre chords, and it's a good way to injure new players if they're on a steel string acoustic. New players do not have the strength or the flexibility to do that chord. Good guitar teachers teach that up much higher on the neck, and they generally only barre a couple strings. Once the student gets stronger, then they start moving it down and using more strings. Good teachers of any physical exertion activity always have some pitfall like this that they instruct you to avoid.
- ookdatnog 6y ago
  > You want to start running? Put on some shoes and go for a run. I did that, went for a run every day, overexerted my ankle, couldn't walk normally for a week and couldn't run for weeks after that, and got out of the habit of running again for a very long time. Your advice might work in specific cases for specific people, but for others it might be harmful. It is, in my opinion, not advice fit for "broadcast": you need to know the recipient and their situation to know whether the advice will not be harmful for them.
  - eebynight 6y ago
    Sounds like you didn't respond to your bodies natural negative feedback mechanism. You are bashing the method when in this case you were completely responsible for the failure. He never says in the article to keep doing something even if it is painful. If you went for a run and experienced pain, I think it would be safe to start trying to stretch or figure out why this happens. This is still compatible with the method he recommends here.
    - ookdatnog 6y ago
      Sure, I agree it was stupid and don't mean to reject responsibility for my actions, but I do think this sort of behavior could be encouraged by the OP's advice. For one, it's quite hard for someone who is not doing sports, to judge what kind of pain you should push through and what kind of pain you shouldn't. If you don't do proper research it's easy to get reached first by memes like "no pain, no gain" etc. And your refinement of the advice only coincidentally happens to work because my injury was non-acute. There's plenty of sports where you can seriously hurt yourself if you don't know what you're doing, without any prior warning. And the advice also only works under the assumption that you get multiple chances, that you will not catastrophically fail on your first go. All of the following sound absurd: - if you want to fly an airplane, just fly an airplane - if you want to build bridges, just build a bridge (not a toy one, that's not "the real thing", one that people will actually use) - if you want to skydive, just knit a parachute and jump out of a plane Of course, you'll say that that's not what you or the OP mean with "doing the real thing" and they're obviously insane. But they're just edge cases to prove a point, you don't need to fail this catastrophically to cause serious harm. OP writes about someone rejecting a job that requires fluency in French, without posting any details about that job, then judges the person for rejecting that job out of hand. That is just crazily irresponsible, it may very well have been a job where she has to communicate in French with French-speaking clients, and where a miscommunication might cost her company a large contract, cost her or her colleagues their jobs, or just sink the company altogether. I think if your advice has this many edge cases where it is harmful, you should think carefully about who you are delivering it to. I'm not saying it is bad advice in all circumstances, it might be exactly what some people need to hear. But it is bad advice to broadcast unqualified.
- gfodor 6y ago
  Disagree, strongly. Gonna learn to lift? Read starting strength. Set yourself up for success by structuring an environment for habit formation. Take the steps to ensure you are getting good nutrition before you start. Don’t just run to the local gym and staring trying to mess around in the squat rack. Going to build a new app? Get up to date on tech stack choices so you don’t make a dumb decision. Look at prior art and understand the work that has come before you can learn from. Trying to learn a new skill? Do some research to find out what the best, most high quality resources there are first. Determine what level of mastery you’ll be happy with before diving in unprepared to know how to assess opportunity costs, which can This doesn’t mean get stuck in analysis paralysis. I feel pretty strongly those who give advice like the advice you mention do not think it’s possible to avoid this obvious trap. It is if you are disciplined and have enough self awareness to know when you have hit the point of diminishing returns. Literally one day of focused thinking can outflank a week or more of pointless execution, even at the beginning. Thinking is underrated, execution without preparation is overrated. The most effective people know how to prepare the mind for execution and not get bogged down doing so. Taking an immediate first step can lead to a bad first impression: a bad lift, a mess of a prototype, or a garbage online course. That can be hard to unwind, since it forms busted initial mental models - and can undermine long term success. There is no hard rule, but aversion to pre-emptive research and analysis is an anti pattern unless you know yourself to be unable to do so.
  - travisjungroth 6y ago
    I agree with every activity you recommend, even down to suggesting Starting Strength. > Literally one day of focused thinking can outflank a week or more of pointless execution, even at the beginning. This (and the many other replies) make me think I did a poor job of expressing myself. I absolutely, 100%, do not think people should screw around for a week before figuring out the right way to do things. I am a huge fan of thinking. I write out long, detailed syllabuses for my students and myself. I am constantly trying to improve both my skills and my process. And I think most people would be well served to do more of that. I only see one real difference between your comment and what I suggested. I think when someone wants to start weightlifting, they shouldn’t reach for a book first. Do a tiny workout first. Maybe what you remember from PE, maybe life that heavy box in the garage 5 times. Then, with one shitty workout under your belt, open the book and do better next time.
robocat 6y ago
> Research, analyze, digest, and then execute. I mostly disagree. Too many people (including myself) get sidetracked with tasks that are not actually “doing the real thing” as the article says. For low risk activities, making mistakes is important. Semi-relevant: one term for wantrepreneurs is “making house” where they give the appearances of building a business without actually doing so. For some riskier tasks, there are obvious “real“ steps to perform before doing the real thing e.g. doing a SCUBA course before using an aqualung. Or getting advice when buying your first home. For many tasks, just doing it is far more successful e.g. learning a language by speaking it with people that have that language as their first tongue. Listen to people who have learned English as a second language, and so many mistakes are due to learning from reading rather than just speaking (babies learn languages naturally, and adults can too, but most adults follow the standard crap techniques which screws their language learning, especially trying to learn to speak by following rules and reading written material). While doing anything, it is important to mix in introspection, videos, books, and training. Repetitive practicing without feedback ingrains mistaken habits into our minds: habits which are extremely difficult to correct later e.g. I have skied a lot but I still make habitual errors learnt as a child. If you are using learning techniques while applying them, the material sticks in your mind and you can take what is relevant.

by gfodor 6y ago

travisjungroth 6y ago

> Taking the first step often requires a lot of research and thinking I generally agree with your comment, but strongly disagree with this part. You will have much more success if you take this first step as soon as possible. No research, no thinking. And a “real thing” first step. You want to start running? Put on some shoes and go for a run. Don’t sign up for a race, don’t look up running tips, don’t buy nice shoes. Just go run for a bit. Coding? Pop open repl.it. Scuba? Get your head under water. Even for things that might be out of reach like flying an airplane, read up on something specific like how to land. With your very first step out of the way, you can then start thinking a bit more.

jkhdigital 6y ago
I tend to agree with this line of thinking... reminds me of Mike Tyson’s admonition “everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” You want to take that first punch as soon as possible.
Kye 6y ago
As someone who digs inversion as a way to get started on things and avoid the big blockers: at least look up basics of how to avoid and recognize injuries while running. Injuries will stop you more firmly than analysis paralysis. You'll mostly discover the right things by doing, but the wrong things can hold you back, and they're often well-documented. Example: guitar players who discover music theory by plucking and poking until things sound good, but mess up their hands with bad form.
superhuzza 6y ago
>You will have much more success if you take this first step as soon as possible. No research, no thinking. I'd be careful with this advice. Almost every time I climb outside I see groups who clearly have very little idea of what they're doing, because all the small but deadly details are wrong - no stopper knots, not backing up rappels, building weird anchors, having 1 point of failure, etc. From their perspective, they're just getting out there and taking those first steps - but with an inadequate understanding of how much risk they've taken on. They don't even realize they're doing anything wrong. It's really bad and regularly leads to serious accidents. To actually climb outside they need mentorship or a bunch of research and practice, both of which take a while to acquire. They should definitely not start by doing the thing.
- travisjungroth 6y ago
  I’d say they weren’t doing what I suggested (that could still mean my advice is bad). Before they actually started climbing the rock, they had to do a bunch of other stuff. They at least got their hands on some gear, probably drove and hiked. And this is partly what gets them into trouble. Fooling yourself into doing something unsafe generally requires a bit of work. I think there’s a safety in doing what’s immediately around you. For most people, it would be really hard to kill themselves rock climbing in the next 15 minutes, but very easy to do it next weekend. My hope for someone doing what I suggest would be something like “I’m gonna go hang from that pull-up bar / low beam / jungle gym on and off for 5 minutes.” Then they research how to actually start rock climbing safely.
bsder 6y ago
> You want to start running? Put on some shoes and go for a run. I agree, but not for things like this which require significant physical exertion. Many physical things have components that, if done incorrectly, are injurious. And they're not always obvious. Guitar, for example, has barre chords. And EVERYBODY always teaches them to beginners at the first fret so you can do an F chord. This is LUDICROUS. That is the maximum tension point on the guitar with respect to barre chords, and it's a good way to injure new players if they're on a steel string acoustic. New players do not have the strength or the flexibility to do that chord. Good guitar teachers teach that up much higher on the neck, and they generally only barre a couple strings. Once the student gets stronger, then they start moving it down and using more strings. Good teachers of any physical exertion activity always have some pitfall like this that they instruct you to avoid.
ookdatnog 6y ago
> You want to start running? Put on some shoes and go for a run. I did that, went for a run every day, overexerted my ankle, couldn't walk normally for a week and couldn't run for weeks after that, and got out of the habit of running again for a very long time. Your advice might work in specific cases for specific people, but for others it might be harmful. It is, in my opinion, not advice fit for "broadcast": you need to know the recipient and their situation to know whether the advice will not be harmful for them.
- eebynight 6y ago
  Sounds like you didn't respond to your bodies natural negative feedback mechanism. You are bashing the method when in this case you were completely responsible for the failure. He never says in the article to keep doing something even if it is painful. If you went for a run and experienced pain, I think it would be safe to start trying to stretch or figure out why this happens. This is still compatible with the method he recommends here.
  - ookdatnog 6y ago
    Sure, I agree it was stupid and don't mean to reject responsibility for my actions, but I do think this sort of behavior could be encouraged by the OP's advice. For one, it's quite hard for someone who is not doing sports, to judge what kind of pain you should push through and what kind of pain you shouldn't. If you don't do proper research it's easy to get reached first by memes like "no pain, no gain" etc. And your refinement of the advice only coincidentally happens to work because my injury was non-acute. There's plenty of sports where you can seriously hurt yourself if you don't know what you're doing, without any prior warning. And the advice also only works under the assumption that you get multiple chances, that you will not catastrophically fail on your first go. All of the following sound absurd: - if you want to fly an airplane, just fly an airplane - if you want to build bridges, just build a bridge (not a toy one, that's not "the real thing", one that people will actually use) - if you want to skydive, just knit a parachute and jump out of a plane Of course, you'll say that that's not what you or the OP mean with "doing the real thing" and they're obviously insane. But they're just edge cases to prove a point, you don't need to fail this catastrophically to cause serious harm. OP writes about someone rejecting a job that requires fluency in French, without posting any details about that job, then judges the person for rejecting that job out of hand. That is just crazily irresponsible, it may very well have been a job where she has to communicate in French with French-speaking clients, and where a miscommunication might cost her company a large contract, cost her or her colleagues their jobs, or just sink the company altogether. I think if your advice has this many edge cases where it is harmful, you should think carefully about who you are delivering it to. I'm not saying it is bad advice in all circumstances, it might be exactly what some people need to hear. But it is bad advice to broadcast unqualified.
gfodor 6y ago
Disagree, strongly. Gonna learn to lift? Read starting strength. Set yourself up for success by structuring an environment for habit formation. Take the steps to ensure you are getting good nutrition before you start. Don’t just run to the local gym and staring trying to mess around in the squat rack. Going to build a new app? Get up to date on tech stack choices so you don’t make a dumb decision. Look at prior art and understand the work that has come before you can learn from. Trying to learn a new skill? Do some research to find out what the best, most high quality resources there are first. Determine what level of mastery you’ll be happy with before diving in unprepared to know how to assess opportunity costs, which can This doesn’t mean get stuck in analysis paralysis. I feel pretty strongly those who give advice like the advice you mention do not think it’s possible to avoid this obvious trap. It is if you are disciplined and have enough self awareness to know when you have hit the point of diminishing returns. Literally one day of focused thinking can outflank a week or more of pointless execution, even at the beginning. Thinking is underrated, execution without preparation is overrated. The most effective people know how to prepare the mind for execution and not get bogged down doing so. Taking an immediate first step can lead to a bad first impression: a bad lift, a mess of a prototype, or a garbage online course. That can be hard to unwind, since it forms busted initial mental models - and can undermine long term success. There is no hard rule, but aversion to pre-emptive research and analysis is an anti pattern unless you know yourself to be unable to do so.
- travisjungroth 6y ago
  I agree with every activity you recommend, even down to suggesting Starting Strength. > Literally one day of focused thinking can outflank a week or more of pointless execution, even at the beginning. This (and the many other replies) make me think I did a poor job of expressing myself. I absolutely, 100%, do not think people should screw around for a week before figuring out the right way to do things. I am a huge fan of thinking. I write out long, detailed syllabuses for my students and myself. I am constantly trying to improve both my skills and my process. And I think most people would be well served to do more of that. I only see one real difference between your comment and what I suggested. I think when someone wants to start weightlifting, they shouldn’t reach for a book first. Do a tiny workout first. Maybe what you remember from PE, maybe life that heavy box in the garage 5 times. Then, with one shitty workout under your belt, open the book and do better next time.

robocat 6y ago

> Research, analyze, digest, and then execute. I mostly disagree. Too many people (including myself) get sidetracked with tasks that are not actually “doing the real thing” as the article says. For low risk activities, making mistakes is important. Semi-relevant: one term for wantrepreneurs is “making house” where they give the appearances of building a business without actually doing so. For some riskier tasks, there are obvious “real“ steps to perform before doing the real thing e.g. doing a SCUBA course before using an aqualung. Or getting advice when buying your first home. For many tasks, just doing it is far more successful e.g. learning a language by speaking it with people that have that language as their first tongue. Listen to people who have learned English as a second language, and so many mistakes are due to learning from reading rather than just speaking (babies learn languages naturally, and adults can too, but most adults follow the standard crap techniques which screws their language learning, especially trying to learn to speak by following rules and reading written material). While doing anything, it is important to mix in introspection, videos, books, and training. Repetitive practicing without feedback ingrains mistaken habits into our minds: habits which are extremely difficult to correct later e.g. I have skied a lot but I still make habitual errors learnt as a child. If you are using learning techniques while applying them, the material sticks in your mind and you can take what is relevant.