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> Civil rights and privacy advocates have raised concerns about how the feature streamlined the reporting of suspicions about minor offenses, encouraging police

> Civil rights and privacy advocates have raised concerns about how the feature streamlined the reporting of suspicions about minor offenses, encouraging police to follow up on what would have otherwise been casual observations on social media. Why is this a problem? Minor offenses are still offenses and they can often be very frustrating and problematic. They still deserve police attention where they constitute a violation of the law. Streamlining the process is a positive not negative, and the framing here just seems like these activist groups don’t want people to be held accountable.

PeterisP 6y ago
I believe that this results in this being used as a tool of harassment against people who are less popular in the neighbourhood for arbitrary - sometimes discriminatory - reasons.
soulofmischief 6y ago
In my experience, my local Nextdoor is filled with racist Karens who think every black person walking the street at night is casing a joint, and every homeless guy is intoxicated. This system feeds the neurosis of so many stay-at-home parents and upper-middle-class professionals and is overall a net negative. Too many false positives make the system useless and actually harmful.
- madengr 6y ago
  I found it was the opposite. White Karen soccer moms virtue signaling with BLM drivel about systematic racism, etc.
- jquery 6y ago
  Karen is a racial slur, or at least fits the definition of one. I suggest wrestling with the irony of what you just typed.
  - damnyou 6y ago
    What history of oppression does the term "Karen" have associated with it? The N word and "faggot" both have centuries of violence behind them.
    - ALittleLight 6y ago
      I'm not aware of a time requirement for a term to qualify as a slur. It seems pretty straightforward that "Karen" does qualify though. You generalize the behavior of a group (women, housewives, etc) and describe them with a pejorative. Adult women have a right to complain about things and report things if they think they are illegal. That some number of women may have filed false or exaggerated reports doesn't give you or others license to dismiss everyone of a similar demographic.
      - damnyou 6y ago
        In my part of the world, the term "slur" necessarily denotes a history of oppression. Yours might be different.
        ALittleLight 6y ago
        The defense that "this slur was recently coined" doesn't strike me as that compelling. "Karen" plays on long standing stereotypes of women as hysterical or nagging. The name-as-insult is new, but the stereotypes are not.
        soulofmischief 6y ago
        I use the term Chad just as often. We're talking about common societal stereotypes and not slurs at all. When you have 8 billion people, you start to see patterns in personalities. Karen is one such observed pattern in modern society. You don't want to die on this hill, bud.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    It's mildly racist, quite sexist, and terribly Karenist. It's a hurtful term, but useful because it's a shibboleth for trashy people to out themselves.
alistairSH 6y ago
Because on Nextdoor, walking down the street while black in the wrong neighborhood is a minor offense. That site is a complete cesspool.
samatman 6y ago
You are of course correct about minor offenses. I suggest you show the courage of your convictions, and do a few hour's research on exactly how much is illegal at present. Then, turn yourself in for only the Federal crimes you've committed in the past year. We'll never see you again, of course, but it's a small price to pay.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  This would be a fun way to antagonise the police. Flash mob style, waiting in line, no! camping out for days waiting in line, not to buy tickets to the next reiteration of $sameoldstorybutwithmorelensflare, but to turn yourself in with video evidence of jaywalking or cycling without a helmet.
  - serf 6y ago
    there is a bit by the comedian Doug Stanhope about how the time of the 'occupy wallstreet' group of people would have been better spent by sitting within the lobbies of large banking institutions and applying for superfluous loans that would be known to be denied before hand, taking advantage of the laws in place that disallow discrimination with regards to loan applications. His example is something like 'Yes, I came here to apply for a loan of a billion dollars for an ant farm, yes I would like a complimentary coffee.' It's an entertaining idea.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      That's actually an excellent idea and fairly easy to put into practice. Most of those processes don't scale at all and rely on self pre-selection and evaluation. The fact that NINJA applicants ever stood a chance was a good indication that something was terribly wrong.
- thrwaway_3212 6y ago
  You can both disagree with petty laws for minor violations and still want prohibitions against theft or public disturbances enforced in your neighborhood.
pooper 6y ago
>Why is this a problem? Minor offenses are still offenses and they can often be very frustrating and problematic. They still deserve police attention where they constitute a violation of the law. Streamlining the process is a positive not negative, and the framing here just seems like these activist groups don’t want people to be held accountable. Be careful of what you wish for. You might wish to look at your local municipal/county/parish/state laws. I likely break dozens of laws/ordinances every day and I'm very positive you do as well, without even knowing it. I am very saddened that I have to spell this out. I don't know whether you use NextDoor, throwawaysea. Would you be willing to post this under your real name in NextDoor and share the link here?
- SilasX 6y ago
  >I likely break dozens of laws/ordinances every day and I'm very positive you do as well, without even knowing it. Okay but then isn't that the real problem? Of not regularly weeding out laws against things that people don't really feel need to be banned? It's kind of clumsy to take the approach of, "We're going to keep dubious laws on the books, and also have ultra-random, haphazard enforcement of all laws regardless of how merited."
  - arrrg 6y ago
    Both are problems. People who abuse that situation and useless laws on the books.
  - notatoad 6y ago
    yes, that is a real problem and it should be solved. but in the absence of a solution to that problem, shutting down tools that make it easy to take advantage of that problem to be racist and/or annoying is a decent starting point.
  - baddox 6y ago
    The problem is that when everyone is guilty of something, the government can pick and choose who it punishes, through prosecutorial discretion, selective policing, and other means.
newacct583 6y ago
> Minor offenses are still offenses The problem, as is always the case, is that "minor offenses" are not equitably enforced. So if the local white kids are hanging out at the corner of the park smoking weed, no one cares. No one posts to Nextdoor. The police don't show up. But four young hispanic men walking through the same white neighborhood (to get to a job, say) will freak someone out and a busybody post to nextdoor will end up getting them stopped. Oh, and it turns out that one of them has weed in his pocket. There's your "minor offense". It's still an offense, right? It deserves police attention? You're looking at this with a microscope. No one is saying don't enforce boring laws. People are saying do it fairly. Nattering busybodies on Nextdoor are the opposite of fair.
- jquery 6y ago
  > Nattering busybodies on Nextdoor What is more fair than locals choosing which stuff is bothering them?
  - newacct583 6y ago
    Because left to their own devices, some locals decide that stuff like "black kids in the neighborhood" are what bother them. We had this argument already, like sixty years ago. Your side lost.
    - pnako 6y ago
      It does look like separation is back on the menu in America, so I would not be too quick to claim victory. Look around the world and you will mostly see ethnically homogeneous neighborhoods. It's not by random occurrence.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    When the things bothering them are "having black neighbors", I'd say most other systems are more fair.
    - jquery 6y ago
ponker 6y ago
Because what is an “offense” is designed to capture a certain kind of person who harms the public but leaves the other, much more harmful kind, untouched. What is the harm caused by stealing a package off a doorstep compared to creating a Facebook ad for oversexualized garments targeting young girls? Compared to marketing addictive pharmaceuticals to people who do not need them? Compared to issuing a fraudulent AAA rating on a mortgage backed security and selling it to a pension fund? Which gets the police involved?
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
The problem isn’t minor offences as such. It’s the reporting of the suspicion. I don’t need my neighbour calling the police on the suspicious of $minor_offence.
mindslight 6y ago
Police departments are failing to arrest murderers even when there is ample evidence. Let's focus on the felonies until they can get those right.

PeterisP 6y ago

I believe that this results in this being used as a tool of harassment against people who are less popular in the neighbourhood for arbitrary - sometimes discriminatory - reasons.

soulofmischief 6y ago

In my experience, my local Nextdoor is filled with racist Karens who think every black person walking the street at night is casing a joint, and every homeless guy is intoxicated. This system feeds the neurosis of so many stay-at-home parents and upper-middle-class professionals and is overall a net negative. Too many false positives make the system useless and actually harmful.

madengr 6y ago
I found it was the opposite. White Karen soccer moms virtue signaling with BLM drivel about systematic racism, etc.
jquery 6y ago
Karen is a racial slur, or at least fits the definition of one. I suggest wrestling with the irony of what you just typed.
- damnyou 6y ago
  What history of oppression does the term "Karen" have associated with it? The N word and "faggot" both have centuries of violence behind them.
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    I'm not aware of a time requirement for a term to qualify as a slur. It seems pretty straightforward that "Karen" does qualify though. You generalize the behavior of a group (women, housewives, etc) and describe them with a pejorative. Adult women have a right to complain about things and report things if they think they are illegal. That some number of women may have filed false or exaggerated reports doesn't give you or others license to dismiss everyone of a similar demographic.
    - damnyou 6y ago
      In my part of the world, the term "slur" necessarily denotes a history of oppression. Yours might be different.
      - ALittleLight 6y ago
        The defense that "this slur was recently coined" doesn't strike me as that compelling. "Karen" plays on long standing stereotypes of women as hysterical or nagging. The name-as-insult is new, but the stereotypes are not.
        soulofmischief 6y ago
        I use the term Chad just as often. We're talking about common societal stereotypes and not slurs at all. When you have 8 billion people, you start to see patterns in personalities. Karen is one such observed pattern in modern society. You don't want to die on this hill, bud.
- sukilot 6y ago
  It's mildly racist, quite sexist, and terribly Karenist. It's a hurtful term, but useful because it's a shibboleth for trashy people to out themselves.

alistairSH 6y ago

Because on Nextdoor, walking down the street while black in the wrong neighborhood is a minor offense. That site is a complete cesspool.

samatman 6y ago

You are of course correct about minor offenses. I suggest you show the courage of your convictions, and do a few hour's research on exactly how much is illegal at present. Then, turn yourself in for only the Federal crimes you've committed in the past year. We'll never see you again, of course, but it's a small price to pay.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
This would be a fun way to antagonise the police. Flash mob style, waiting in line, no! camping out for days waiting in line, not to buy tickets to the next reiteration of $sameoldstorybutwithmorelensflare, but to turn yourself in with video evidence of jaywalking or cycling without a helmet.
- serf 6y ago
  there is a bit by the comedian Doug Stanhope about how the time of the 'occupy wallstreet' group of people would have been better spent by sitting within the lobbies of large banking institutions and applying for superfluous loans that would be known to be denied before hand, taking advantage of the laws in place that disallow discrimination with regards to loan applications. His example is something like 'Yes, I came here to apply for a loan of a billion dollars for an ant farm, yes I would like a complimentary coffee.' It's an entertaining idea.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    That's actually an excellent idea and fairly easy to put into practice. Most of those processes don't scale at all and rely on self pre-selection and evaluation. The fact that NINJA applicants ever stood a chance was a good indication that something was terribly wrong.
thrwaway_3212 6y ago
You can both disagree with petty laws for minor violations and still want prohibitions against theft or public disturbances enforced in your neighborhood.

pooper 6y ago

>Why is this a problem? Minor offenses are still offenses and they can often be very frustrating and problematic. They still deserve police attention where they constitute a violation of the law. Streamlining the process is a positive not negative, and the framing here just seems like these activist groups don’t want people to be held accountable. Be careful of what you wish for. You might wish to look at your local municipal/county/parish/state laws. I likely break dozens of laws/ordinances every day and I'm very positive you do as well, without even knowing it. I am very saddened that I have to spell this out. I don't know whether you use NextDoor, throwawaysea. Would you be willing to post this under your real name in NextDoor and share the link here?

SilasX 6y ago
>I likely break dozens of laws/ordinances every day and I'm very positive you do as well, without even knowing it. Okay but then isn't that the real problem? Of not regularly weeding out laws against things that people don't really feel need to be banned? It's kind of clumsy to take the approach of, "We're going to keep dubious laws on the books, and also have ultra-random, haphazard enforcement of all laws regardless of how merited."
- arrrg 6y ago
  Both are problems. People who abuse that situation and useless laws on the books.
- notatoad 6y ago
  yes, that is a real problem and it should be solved. but in the absence of a solution to that problem, shutting down tools that make it easy to take advantage of that problem to be racist and/or annoying is a decent starting point.
- baddox 6y ago
  The problem is that when everyone is guilty of something, the government can pick and choose who it punishes, through prosecutorial discretion, selective policing, and other means.

newacct583 6y ago

> Minor offenses are still offenses The problem, as is always the case, is that "minor offenses" are not equitably enforced. So if the local white kids are hanging out at the corner of the park smoking weed, no one cares. No one posts to Nextdoor. The police don't show up. But four young hispanic men walking through the same white neighborhood (to get to a job, say) will freak someone out and a busybody post to nextdoor will end up getting them stopped. Oh, and it turns out that one of them has weed in his pocket. There's your "minor offense". It's still an offense, right? It deserves police attention? You're looking at this with a microscope. No one is saying don't enforce boring laws. People are saying do it fairly. Nattering busybodies on Nextdoor are the opposite of fair.

jquery 6y ago
> Nattering busybodies on Nextdoor What is more fair than locals choosing which stuff is bothering them?
- newacct583 6y ago
  Because left to their own devices, some locals decide that stuff like "black kids in the neighborhood" are what bother them. We had this argument already, like sixty years ago. Your side lost.
  - pnako 6y ago
    It does look like separation is back on the menu in America, so I would not be too quick to claim victory. Look around the world and you will mostly see ethnically homogeneous neighborhoods. It's not by random occurrence.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  When the things bothering them are "having black neighbors", I'd say most other systems are more fair.
  - jquery 6y ago

ponker 6y ago

Because what is an “offense” is designed to capture a certain kind of person who harms the public but leaves the other, much more harmful kind, untouched. What is the harm caused by stealing a package off a doorstep compared to creating a Facebook ad for oversexualized garments targeting young girls? Compared to marketing addictive pharmaceuticals to people who do not need them? Compared to issuing a fraudulent AAA rating on a mortgage backed security and selling it to a pension fund? Which gets the police involved?

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

The problem isn’t minor offences as such. It’s the reporting of the suspicion. I don’t need my neighbour calling the police on the suspicious of $minor_offence.

mindslight 6y ago

Police departments are failing to arrest murderers even when there is ample evidence. Let's focus on the felonies until they can get those right.