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so. this is so general that it’s not helpful. what ranges are we talking about? also, when people talk about cholesterol they usually don’t mean cholesterol th

so. this is so general that it’s not helpful. what ranges are we talking about? also, when people talk about cholesterol they usually don’t mean cholesterol they mean lipi-proteins that carry the cholesterol through the blood (cholesterol needs this as it’s hydrophobic). LDL from those lipo-proteins is definitely correlated with heart disease. Here, read about it in more detail than you probably need to know: https://peterattiamd.com/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-i/ https://peterattiamd.com/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-pa...

KerryJones 6y ago
LDL is correlated but not causative and it's been discovered that HDL is a much better indicator. Take a look at this book: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/1451624433/ https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14... It goes into it quite a bit more -- cholesterol is a _terrible_ indicator of overall health. This is well known in the Keto community.
- rantwasp 6y ago
  when you use LDL, HDL and cholesterol interchangeably this tells me that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Cholesterol itself is part of the lipid membrane of every cell. It’s essential. When people say “high cholesterol” they usually talk about high cholesterol carrying lipo-proteins in the bloodstream. high ldl is definitely a risk factor for CHD
  - eebynight 6y ago
    How do you explain what Dave Feldman refers to as the lipid triad which is common in people that are on a low carbohydrate diet? In this case, there is not sufficient evidence that those who have elevated HDL, LDL and low triglycerides have higher rates of cardiovascular disease... https://cholesterolcode.com/a-dialog-on-the-lipid-triad-with-sigma-nutrition-radio/ https://cholesterolcode.com/a-dialog-on-the-lipid-triad-with...
    - rantwasp 6y ago
      not familiar with this fellow but if I had to guess I would say that in some cases ldl-c (volume) is high while ldl-p (count) is low leading the ldl not to cause as much damage as it a high number of particles
  - KerryJones 6y ago
    I didn't use them interchangeably...? Did you mean to refer to someone else?
- krustyburger 6y ago
  And the opposite is well known in the Whole Foods Plant-Based community. I don’t have a horse in this race but appeals to authority when it comes to the science of diet are highly suspect.
  - KerryJones 6y ago
    Nah, I used to be on a plant-based diet -- have done quite a bit of research. This is _not_ well known in the community, but sure, a few under-researched people in the group might say that has to do with it.
PKop 6y ago
>this is so general that it’s not helpful I think digging into the minutiae of specific numbers is silly, when the better frame is to construct the right diet the comports w/ human evolution and lifestyle, energy, activity and go from there. Generally low carb (particularly avoiding high glycemic index carb, and sugars) preferring lower starch vegetables, while prioritizing animal fats, meat, fish. Keto / keto carnivore, low carb etc have been around and well studied for a while now. People should do their own research (I like all of Gary Taubes' books and presentations, there are many others as well and podcasts) but ultimately I summarize the point as our bodies have evolved to follow this diet and observations of societies or time periods when one or the other was more prevalent show stark differentials in health, obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome... I have no idea what my cholesterol numbers are (I'm sure they are "high"), but I certainly would never take a statin which would destroy my brain.. and as the OP mentioned, I know what makes me feel rested, energetic, what provides energy and muscle mass along with workouts in the weight room, what does or does not result in brain fog (sugar), better sleep, lower body fat, etc. All low carb / high fat. The more intense the exercise one does, the more carbs they can consume.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rantwasp 6y ago
  i don’t like this line of thinking. digging in can help you tailor your diet and lifestyle on the genetics you have. also, decades of medical research cannot just be swept away based on a gut feeling. do know everything? no. do we have some good indicators? definitely.
- firethief 6y ago
  Keto diets have most definitely not been around long enough for anyone's bodies to evolve to follow them. That takes many thousands of years.
  - narag 6y ago
    The diet of primitive humans was more similar to keto than to current developed country diets and it was in place for hundreds of thousands of years. The first big change was from agricultural civilizations in neolithic, less than ten thousands year ago. Current diet is at most a hundred years old. And specifically the diet that is causing so many problems is only fifty years old.

KerryJones 6y ago

LDL is correlated but not causative and it's been discovered that HDL is a much better indicator. Take a look at this book: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/1451624433/ https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14... It goes into it quite a bit more -- cholesterol is a _terrible_ indicator of overall health. This is well known in the Keto community.

rantwasp 6y ago
when you use LDL, HDL and cholesterol interchangeably this tells me that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Cholesterol itself is part of the lipid membrane of every cell. It’s essential. When people say “high cholesterol” they usually talk about high cholesterol carrying lipo-proteins in the bloodstream. high ldl is definitely a risk factor for CHD
- eebynight 6y ago
  How do you explain what Dave Feldman refers to as the lipid triad which is common in people that are on a low carbohydrate diet? In this case, there is not sufficient evidence that those who have elevated HDL, LDL and low triglycerides have higher rates of cardiovascular disease... https://cholesterolcode.com/a-dialog-on-the-lipid-triad-with-sigma-nutrition-radio/ https://cholesterolcode.com/a-dialog-on-the-lipid-triad-with...
  - rantwasp 6y ago
    not familiar with this fellow but if I had to guess I would say that in some cases ldl-c (volume) is high while ldl-p (count) is low leading the ldl not to cause as much damage as it a high number of particles
- KerryJones 6y ago
  I didn't use them interchangeably...? Did you mean to refer to someone else?
krustyburger 6y ago
And the opposite is well known in the Whole Foods Plant-Based community. I don’t have a horse in this race but appeals to authority when it comes to the science of diet are highly suspect.
- KerryJones 6y ago
  Nah, I used to be on a plant-based diet -- have done quite a bit of research. This is _not_ well known in the community, but sure, a few under-researched people in the group might say that has to do with it.

PKop 6y ago

>this is so general that it’s not helpful I think digging into the minutiae of specific numbers is silly, when the better frame is to construct the right diet the comports w/ human evolution and lifestyle, energy, activity and go from there. Generally low carb (particularly avoiding high glycemic index carb, and sugars) preferring lower starch vegetables, while prioritizing animal fats, meat, fish. Keto / keto carnivore, low carb etc have been around and well studied for a while now. People should do their own research (I like all of Gary Taubes' books and presentations, there are many others as well and podcasts) but ultimately I summarize the point as our bodies have evolved to follow this diet and observations of societies or time periods when one or the other was more prevalent show stark differentials in health, obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome... I have no idea what my cholesterol numbers are (I'm sure they are "high"), but I certainly would never take a statin which would destroy my brain.. and as the OP mentioned, I know what makes me feel rested, energetic, what provides energy and muscle mass along with workouts in the weight room, what does or does not result in brain fog (sugar), better sleep, lower body fat, etc. All low carb / high fat. The more intense the exercise one does, the more carbs they can consume.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rantwasp 6y ago
i don’t like this line of thinking. digging in can help you tailor your diet and lifestyle on the genetics you have. also, decades of medical research cannot just be swept away based on a gut feeling. do know everything? no. do we have some good indicators? definitely.
firethief 6y ago
Keto diets have most definitely not been around long enough for anyone's bodies to evolve to follow them. That takes many thousands of years.
- narag 6y ago
  The diet of primitive humans was more similar to keto than to current developed country diets and it was in place for hundreds of thousands of years. The first big change was from agricultural civilizations in neolithic, less than ten thousands year ago. Current diet is at most a hundred years old. And specifically the diet that is causing so many problems is only fifty years old.