3 ms·

Also, the fact that Apple bothered to use a weird screw is evidence that this represents a substantive barrier to many people. I mean, most people are never goi

Also, the fact that Apple bothered to use a weird screw is evidence that this represents a substantive barrier to many people. I mean, most people are never going to open their laptop in the first place; of those that would, a large fraction will have standard small screw drivers on hand.

aspenmayer 6y ago
For all the parents of curious young hackers, a minor hurdle preventing easy access to internals has likely saved an untold number of laptops from unauthorized disassembly. It’s good to learn at a young age to have permission beforehand, instead of exceeding authorized access. A little help from the manufacturer goes a long way in that regard.
- ACow_Adonis 6y ago
  but the entire way many of us learnt to be hackers was through unauthorised disassembly :(
  - aspenmayer 6y ago
    Good point, and it's one well taken. It's preferable to have a close relationship with your kids so they don't hide things from you, except things you're better off not knowing. To the point at hand, part of hacking, and life generally, is discretion. I learned not to do something I shouldn't as much from my upbringing, as I learned from my own testing. I was the kid who touched the hot stove after being told not to, as well as the electric fence. It wasn't such much defiance as discovery. I didn't find the potential for harm especially dissuading. I'd rather suffer a little harm in a controlled way than not know something so simple about my constructed environment. I was kind of a weird kid, now that I think about it. I like to think that I'm not the only one.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Unauthorized disassembly? What kind of incredible nonsense is that? You own it, you have the automatic right to disassemble it. Right to repair and all that. You sure you're on the right website?
  - aspenmayer 6y ago
    If your kid disassembled your hardware without your permission or your knowing, and damaged it or your data irreparably, that would be less preferable to the same outcome with your knowledge and consent, wouldn’t it?
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      I was that kid. That sort of unauthorized disassembly is what powered (and probably still powers) my career. I suspect that holds true for a relatively large percentage of the HN crowd. That's a clear strawman though, unauthorized in this context clearly meant 'not authorized by the manufacturer', it's not the parents that install safety screws to keep the kids out, it's the manufacturers that do it to keep the owners out.
      - aspenmayer 6y ago
        I wrote the comment. I didn’t mean that in that way; I mean the intention of the manufacturer may coincidentally overlap with that of a hypothetical parent of a precocious child or children. I didn’t mean to advocate for the practice of safety or otherwise nonstandard fasteners in consumer electronics. I’m against that practice, even if it may have potential upsides as in my example. I was also that kid, and now I use computer hardware and software skills daily in a professional capacity. Don’t get me wrong, I certainly agree with you on all points. I don’t know what reasonable justification there is for doing this for consumer devices generally, from the owner’s perspective. Maybe it makes devices more appealing in a corporate context, for the same reason some secure environments forbid devices with cameras or recording hardware, and also forbid (re-)recordable media. Maybe it reduces loss in the supply chain for the companies to do so. Some credit card payment terminals have tamper-evident designs built-in prevent or deter dumping hardware encryption/decryption keys, firmware, and other kinds of tampering, to reduce fraud and unauthorized access, for the owner’s sake and the networks’ sake. I would like to hear some more or better reasons if anyone has insights into these topics.
        jacquesm 6y ago

aspenmayer 6y ago

For all the parents of curious young hackers, a minor hurdle preventing easy access to internals has likely saved an untold number of laptops from unauthorized disassembly. It’s good to learn at a young age to have permission beforehand, instead of exceeding authorized access. A little help from the manufacturer goes a long way in that regard.

ACow_Adonis 6y ago
but the entire way many of us learnt to be hackers was through unauthorised disassembly :(
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  Good point, and it's one well taken. It's preferable to have a close relationship with your kids so they don't hide things from you, except things you're better off not knowing. To the point at hand, part of hacking, and life generally, is discretion. I learned not to do something I shouldn't as much from my upbringing, as I learned from my own testing. I was the kid who touched the hot stove after being told not to, as well as the electric fence. It wasn't such much defiance as discovery. I didn't find the potential for harm especially dissuading. I'd rather suffer a little harm in a controlled way than not know something so simple about my constructed environment. I was kind of a weird kid, now that I think about it. I like to think that I'm not the only one.
jacquesm 6y ago
Unauthorized disassembly? What kind of incredible nonsense is that? You own it, you have the automatic right to disassemble it. Right to repair and all that. You sure you're on the right website?
- aspenmayer 6y ago
  If your kid disassembled your hardware without your permission or your knowing, and damaged it or your data irreparably, that would be less preferable to the same outcome with your knowledge and consent, wouldn’t it?
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    I was that kid. That sort of unauthorized disassembly is what powered (and probably still powers) my career. I suspect that holds true for a relatively large percentage of the HN crowd. That's a clear strawman though, unauthorized in this context clearly meant 'not authorized by the manufacturer', it's not the parents that install safety screws to keep the kids out, it's the manufacturers that do it to keep the owners out.
    - aspenmayer 6y ago
      I wrote the comment. I didn’t mean that in that way; I mean the intention of the manufacturer may coincidentally overlap with that of a hypothetical parent of a precocious child or children. I didn’t mean to advocate for the practice of safety or otherwise nonstandard fasteners in consumer electronics. I’m against that practice, even if it may have potential upsides as in my example. I was also that kid, and now I use computer hardware and software skills daily in a professional capacity. Don’t get me wrong, I certainly agree with you on all points. I don’t know what reasonable justification there is for doing this for consumer devices generally, from the owner’s perspective. Maybe it makes devices more appealing in a corporate context, for the same reason some secure environments forbid devices with cameras or recording hardware, and also forbid (re-)recordable media. Maybe it reduces loss in the supply chain for the companies to do so. Some credit card payment terminals have tamper-evident designs built-in prevent or deter dumping hardware encryption/decryption keys, firmware, and other kinds of tampering, to reduce fraud and unauthorized access, for the owner’s sake and the networks’ sake. I would like to hear some more or better reasons if anyone has insights into these topics.
      - jacquesm 6y ago