6 ms·

This is great news for Canada. Once the Covid situation resolves, if Trudeau doesn't give a lot of incentives for tech companies to build offices there Canada w

This is great news for Canada. Once the Covid situation resolves, if Trudeau doesn't give a lot of incentives for tech companies to build offices there Canada will miss out on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Canada has already been benefiting from the recent restrictions on work visas and rejecting visas for no reason, for example by saying a forensic pathologist isn't a specialty occupation. https://www.npr.org/2020/01/27/799402801/canada-wins-u-s-loses-in-global-fight-for-high-tech-workers https://www.npr.org/2020/01/27/799402801/canada-wins-u-s-los... https://insights.dice.com/2020/02/11/canada-continues-benefit-u-s-h-1b-confusion/ https://insights.dice.com/2020/02/11/canada-continues-benefi...

cheez 6y ago
Not happening.
dpbriggs 6y ago
Wouldn't TN visas be a workaround?
- derptacos 6y ago
  How does the TN circumvent in this situation legally ?
  - OldHand2018 6y ago
    The TN visa comes from a treaty between the US, Canada and Mexico; it is not part of the immigration law that gives us the H1-B. I have no specific knowledge of the wording of the treaty, but it seems highly likely that the leader of any of the 3 countries could suspend the visa. A cousin of mine used to do staffing for highly specialized roles in the auto industry and the TN was very important in the Detroit/Windsor metro area. I don't think it is used in tech anywhere near as much as it is used elsewhere; since it is clear that the current administration is just looking for ways to give the tech industry a hard time, it seems unlikely that TN would be a target. On the other hand, the method for getting a TN visa is very much different than other visas. A Mexican citizen coming into the US has a fair amount of advanced paperwork required but otherwise has almost no problem. A Canadian citizen just shows up at the border with a job offer, a detailed description of the job and proof of the education requirements. The immigration officer makes the determination on the spot and they either walk through or turn around! The administration could quietly issue guidance to immigration officers about how strict they need to be, and you might end up with very similar effects without all the publicity of an executive order.
- cylinder 6y ago
  TN is for Canadian citizens working in the US. The opportunity for Canada is about (mostly Indian but other nationalities too) offering easy visas to skilled professionals so US tech companies can relocate them (or they can move independently) to Canada and not have to deal with the broken US system.
samfisher83 6y ago
People in Canada aren't making US salaries. Most people want to go to the US for the money.
- vsskanth 6y ago
  Well it looks like US is not an option anymore. Canada on the other hand gives you PR on entry if you're skilled enough. Money doesn't matter if it becomes an eternal struggle or impossible to maintain legal status.
- monadic2 6y ago
  Yea but you get a government
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  A lot of immigrants want career opportunities, a reasonable path to permanent residence and/or citizenship, and a good environment for their family. #1 could change, some tech companies have started to realize they can offer more remote jobs and save money while offering salaries that are still very competitive to anyone not living in the Bay Area. #2 was already problematic before Trump. #3 is often better outside the US.
- belltaco 6y ago
  That makes Canada even more attractive to tech companies because they can save money. Canadian salaries and living standards are still better than many other countries'.
  - ScalaFan 6y ago
    Tech labor has historically cheaper than in the US. It would have been nice to see more Canadian tech success stories at 1/10 the number that have occurred in SV alone. There must be some other variables that explain the difference.
OzzyB 6y ago
Can you take some of the Bay Area homeless as well, or is it only acceptable to place economic externalities Stateside?
- curuinor 6y ago
  Parent commenter's never been to the skid row of Vancouver. Land prices is the fucked thing, and they're plenty fucked in Canada, too.
  - OzzyB 6y ago
    > Parent commenter's Is that my post or my parent's post? Fwiw I'm well aware of Canada's property bubble but I'm sure that has more to do with foreign capital outflows than local talent being pushed out the market.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
joelbluminator 6y ago
I hope it does. But I wonder if a very bad economic crisis (that some say started in 2008 and we never truly recovered from) may cause a similar wave of xenophobia and civil unrest in Canada as we now see happening in the U.S. I know Canada is a very different country than the U.S and much less prone to massive civil unrest, but all and all it's not that much different than countries like UK, Germany, France etc - who are experiencing their own brand of populism and growing xenophobia now.
- grad_ml 6y ago
  I don't think same would happen in Canada. What US lawmakers have done, is to put a tap on green card basis on the country of origin. Indians on H1B wouldn't get their green card, in their life time, period. If there were no Indians waiting for green card, it wouldn't have been a big issue. It is by design. Indians are new B
- SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
  Yeah, right, you apparently do not remember Quebec unrests, when they wanted to secede.
ycombonator 6y ago
They all eventually come back to USA after gaining a foothold in Canada. TN Visas. Majority of TN Visa users are immigrants into Canada.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  This sounds like a massive exaggeration to me. Do you have any citation to back up these claims?
  - aianus 6y ago
    Over 50% of Toronto, at least, is born outside of Canada and even then immigrants were overrepresented in my CS cohort at Waterloo in 2014. So it seems plausible -- but these aren't people cynically exploiting Canada as a hop on the way to the US, they're people who were born outside Canada but moved to Canada as children and grew up Canadian.
  - ycombonator 6y ago
    >For the lakhs in India who aspire for an H1B visa, the news is disappointing, but not entirely unexpected. The options of Canada and Australia, which once seemed alternatives to the American dream, are also more distant now, given the dismal global economic scenario. One young couple, on a temporary visa in the US which will expire soon, had invested in acquiring a Permanent Residence (PR) in neighbouring Canada, but they are now unsure of that too. [1]https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/06/22/american-dream-goes-distant-trumps-plans-on-h1b-visa-have-indians-on-tenterhooks.html https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/06/22/american-dream-...
Element_ 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_plant_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_plant_economy
latenightcoding 6y ago
Tech salaries are not even close. Only Toronto and Vancouver would be attractive options for tech workers, both cities have a housing problem.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Montreal needs to step up with their salaries.
  - SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
    Montreal is super cheap though, but has the language issue.
GhostVII 6y ago
I think most Canadians working in the US for tech companies would be on a TN visa, which is not being suspended according to the Globe and Mail [0]. Internships would be significantly affected though, since they go on a J1 visa so it could help the new grad pipeline for Canadian tech companies. [0] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-trump-freezes-some-immigration-to-us-may-stop-temporary-work/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-tr...
- paulgb 6y ago
  I think the implication of OP is not that fewer Canadians would be in the US (though I'd point out that a lot of us Canadians are on H-1Bs too), but that immigrants from other countries could go to Canada and work from a satellite office in the same time zone.
- jdsully 6y ago
  TN allows for no immigration intent and can be rescinded any time you cross at the whims of the border guard. Most US companies will transition a Canadian to an H1-B and then a green card as quickly as feasible.

cheez 6y ago

Not happening.

dpbriggs 6y ago

Wouldn't TN visas be a workaround?

derptacos 6y ago
How does the TN circumvent in this situation legally ?
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  The TN visa comes from a treaty between the US, Canada and Mexico; it is not part of the immigration law that gives us the H1-B. I have no specific knowledge of the wording of the treaty, but it seems highly likely that the leader of any of the 3 countries could suspend the visa. A cousin of mine used to do staffing for highly specialized roles in the auto industry and the TN was very important in the Detroit/Windsor metro area. I don't think it is used in tech anywhere near as much as it is used elsewhere; since it is clear that the current administration is just looking for ways to give the tech industry a hard time, it seems unlikely that TN would be a target. On the other hand, the method for getting a TN visa is very much different than other visas. A Mexican citizen coming into the US has a fair amount of advanced paperwork required but otherwise has almost no problem. A Canadian citizen just shows up at the border with a job offer, a detailed description of the job and proof of the education requirements. The immigration officer makes the determination on the spot and they either walk through or turn around! The administration could quietly issue guidance to immigration officers about how strict they need to be, and you might end up with very similar effects without all the publicity of an executive order.
cylinder 6y ago
TN is for Canadian citizens working in the US. The opportunity for Canada is about (mostly Indian but other nationalities too) offering easy visas to skilled professionals so US tech companies can relocate them (or they can move independently) to Canada and not have to deal with the broken US system.

samfisher83 6y ago

People in Canada aren't making US salaries. Most people want to go to the US for the money.

vsskanth 6y ago
Well it looks like US is not an option anymore. Canada on the other hand gives you PR on entry if you're skilled enough. Money doesn't matter if it becomes an eternal struggle or impossible to maintain legal status.
monadic2 6y ago
Yea but you get a government
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
hocuspocus 6y ago
A lot of immigrants want career opportunities, a reasonable path to permanent residence and/or citizenship, and a good environment for their family. #1 could change, some tech companies have started to realize they can offer more remote jobs and save money while offering salaries that are still very competitive to anyone not living in the Bay Area. #2 was already problematic before Trump. #3 is often better outside the US.
belltaco 6y ago
That makes Canada even more attractive to tech companies because they can save money. Canadian salaries and living standards are still better than many other countries'.
- ScalaFan 6y ago
  Tech labor has historically cheaper than in the US. It would have been nice to see more Canadian tech success stories at 1/10 the number that have occurred in SV alone. There must be some other variables that explain the difference.

OzzyB 6y ago

Can you take some of the Bay Area homeless as well, or is it only acceptable to place economic externalities Stateside?

curuinor 6y ago
Parent commenter's never been to the skid row of Vancouver. Land prices is the fucked thing, and they're plenty fucked in Canada, too.
- OzzyB 6y ago
  > Parent commenter's Is that my post or my parent's post? Fwiw I'm well aware of Canada's property bubble but I'm sure that has more to do with foreign capital outflows than local talent being pushed out the market.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

joelbluminator 6y ago

I hope it does. But I wonder if a very bad economic crisis (that some say started in 2008 and we never truly recovered from) may cause a similar wave of xenophobia and civil unrest in Canada as we now see happening in the U.S. I know Canada is a very different country than the U.S and much less prone to massive civil unrest, but all and all it's not that much different than countries like UK, Germany, France etc - who are experiencing their own brand of populism and growing xenophobia now.

grad_ml 6y ago
I don't think same would happen in Canada. What US lawmakers have done, is to put a tap on green card basis on the country of origin. Indians on H1B wouldn't get their green card, in their life time, period. If there were no Indians waiting for green card, it wouldn't have been a big issue. It is by design. Indians are new B
SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
Yeah, right, you apparently do not remember Quebec unrests, when they wanted to secede.

ycombonator 6y ago

They all eventually come back to USA after gaining a foothold in Canada. TN Visas. Majority of TN Visa users are immigrants into Canada.

smnrchrds 6y ago
This sounds like a massive exaggeration to me. Do you have any citation to back up these claims?
- aianus 6y ago
  Over 50% of Toronto, at least, is born outside of Canada and even then immigrants were overrepresented in my CS cohort at Waterloo in 2014. So it seems plausible -- but these aren't people cynically exploiting Canada as a hop on the way to the US, they're people who were born outside Canada but moved to Canada as children and grew up Canadian.
- ycombonator 6y ago
  >For the lakhs in India who aspire for an H1B visa, the news is disappointing, but not entirely unexpected. The options of Canada and Australia, which once seemed alternatives to the American dream, are also more distant now, given the dismal global economic scenario. One young couple, on a temporary visa in the US which will expire soon, had invested in acquiring a Permanent Residence (PR) in neighbouring Canada, but they are now unsure of that too. [1]https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/06/22/american-dream-goes-distant-trumps-plans-on-h1b-visa-have-indians-on-tenterhooks.html https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/06/22/american-dream-...

Element_ 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_plant_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_plant_economy

latenightcoding 6y ago

Tech salaries are not even close. Only Toronto and Vancouver would be attractive options for tech workers, both cities have a housing problem.

Apocryphon 6y ago
Montreal needs to step up with their salaries.
- SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
  Montreal is super cheap though, but has the language issue.

GhostVII 6y ago

I think most Canadians working in the US for tech companies would be on a TN visa, which is not being suspended according to the Globe and Mail [0]. Internships would be significantly affected though, since they go on a J1 visa so it could help the new grad pipeline for Canadian tech companies. [0] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-trump-freezes-some-immigration-to-us-may-stop-temporary-work/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-tr...

paulgb 6y ago
I think the implication of OP is not that fewer Canadians would be in the US (though I'd point out that a lot of us Canadians are on H-1Bs too), but that immigrants from other countries could go to Canada and work from a satellite office in the same time zone.
jdsully 6y ago
TN allows for no immigration intent and can be rescinded any time you cross at the whims of the border guard. Most US companies will transition a Canadian to an H1-B and then a green card as quickly as feasible.