6 ms·

Gameloft took down Marvel's SpiderMan trailer (11M views) with a copyright claim

93 points by 101008 6y ago

slg 6y ago
There are no real details at the Reddit link (at the time of posting). As best I can surmise, Gameloft has the exclusive license to mobile Spider-Man games while Sony has the exclusive license to Spider-Man on home consoles. There was probably some automated process either with Gameloft or Youtube that was setup specifically to enforce that exclusive mobile license and accidentally caught the trailer for the Sony game. This will likely get fixed quickly, but it highlights the stupidity of Youtube's copyright system and how leaving it up to the algorithms generates new problems that can only be fixed by humans. The humans will obviously be quick to react when it is a video uploaded by Sony with 11M views. How quickly will they react when your or my videos are inappropriately taken down?
- waon 6y ago
  You can see what happened in the official PlayStation blog which is linked by the Reddit post. The blog post lists official YouTube trailers for upcoming PS5 games, including the SpiderMan trailer which was taken down. https://blog.playstation.com/2020/06/11/playstation-studios-first-look-at-9-new-ps5-games/ https://blog.playstation.com/2020/06/11/playstation-studios-...
  - slg 6y ago
    That blog post only shows what is already included in the title of this HN post. I was trying to add context of both why this might have happened and why it is important.
- prox 6y ago
  If anyone from Google YT is reading this : when is this ridiculous system going to change? On a similar note : Why is it so hard to license music for small use, especially if you are willing to pay for small audiences use / non-commercial use?
  - on_and_off 6y ago
    As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong INAL, this system is only going to change when the legislation changes.
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      I think this mistake might be very effective for it.
      - randallsquared 6y ago
        No, only small independents and consumers want change; the larger firms can all just make special agreements with each other. The fact that there was a blunder here will be deemed the fault of the companies or some hapless employee, not on the system in place.
    - Silhouette 6y ago
      You probably are wrong, because sites like YouTube often operate multiple takedown mechanisms. They have to follow the law in areas where they operate, so for example in the US you have takedown notices under the DMCA, and various other parts of the world have similar provisions. However, there is no reason YouTube cannot also make its own private arrangements with major media companies to provide alternative takedown mechanisms. Retaining such arrangements might be in YouTube's best interests even if laws are changed, because it doesn't want to pick expensive legal fights with rightsholders, so it may be beneficial to offer the big players a relatively simple way to take down content they don't like even if this isn't strictly a legal requirement. The only reason this story is entertaining is that for once it was one of the big rightsholders that got hit by a mistake. But that will get fixed very quickly, and since rightsholders like Marvel probably benefit greatly from YouTube's takedown systems, I think it is extremely unlikely that anything else will change because of this.
  - kmeisthax 6y ago
    The system was imposed upon them by 1) licensing agreements with major content companies and 2) EU Copyright Directive Article 17. Actually, EUCD17 is a bit more insidious: it's a sliding scale of "best practices", which means that when content companies demand a better system of one licensee, every other player in the space (regardless of if they do business with that licensee) loses their liability protection until they meet that licensee's standard. That's how they were able to get away with claiming it didn't have upload filters: they just made it so that a court could point to YouTube and say "why aren't you as good as YouTube in taking things down"?
- manojlds 6y ago
  Last year F1 official YouTube video was taken down by Start Sports (rights holder in India and other regions)
- phreack 6y ago
  What's astounding is that the video has been down for over 12 hours now at least since I first saw it on a large forum. So not even Sony can get Google to act 'quickly' on a major obvious error! There is zero chance any individual will ever get justice in comparison when this happens to them.
  - plerpin 6y ago
    A mechanism for regulatory compliance will probably err on the side of less exposure to lawsuits. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, but the demands imposed by the government for copyright compliance are backed by a bigger stick. Don't kid yourself, any other commercially successful VOD platform will have the exact same problem. A startup might squeak by under the radar for a while, but as soon as it gets critical mass, it won't be long before it gets encumbered by all this regulatory "fun".
    - the_pwner224 6y ago
      > the demands imposed by the government for copyright compliance are backed by a bigger stick Youtube's takedown process goes WAY beyond what the DMCA requires. Youtube is the bitch of / in bed with the big media companies.
      - Wingy 6y ago
        YouTube's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU Edit: Oh someone already posted it here, sorry.
    - CM30 6y ago
      A centralised platform might have the same problem. A decentralised or federated one might not, since no one would have the power to remove anything. Maybe also some blockchain based system where uploads are physically impossible to take down. That's going to be interesting to see the results for court case wise, just like it'll be if illegal content ends up on the Bitcoin one.
- literallycancer 6y ago
  It's not a problem that the system is automated. The problem is that there is no punishment for bogus claims.
- soulofmischief 6y ago
  The sad thing is, the nail in the coffin won't be an individual wrongly getting their revenue stolen from them, but one corporation claiming content owned by another corporation.
CaliforniaKarl 6y ago
For everyone asking "Why is YouTube's copyright system like it is? When is it going to change?", I suggest watching Tom Scott's video "YouTube's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is.": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU
- carapace 6y ago
  (Who is this guy? The youtube comments on that video don't suck.)
  - enzanki_ars 6y ago
    Tom Scott is an educational YouTuber that teaches people about a wide range of interesting topics, and there is a reason why his main series is called "Things You Might Not Know." He always ensures that his content is short and to the point, all while maximizing the amount of thoroughly researched information. Funny enough, the video linked regarding copyright is actually one of his more unique projects with a much longer run time and higher production value. Tom Scott is one YouTuber in a small set that I would recommend everybody checkout to learn something cool.
    - iso947 6y ago
      Like Nigel Farage he stood for parliament and failed to get in - in Tom’s case it was due to a split in the pirate vote, as “Mad Capn Tom” was ip against the Pirate Party
- newacct583 6y ago
  Exactly. Also, it's worth pointing out the fraction of people outraged about Google's process for administrating copyright takedown requests and demanding justice vs. the number who apparently aren't concerned about Gameloft's ability to tell the difference between their own IP and Sony's. Both are mistakes. Why is it Google's job to not make mistakes and not Gameloft's? The system is just broken, agreed. But it's the legal system that is at fault here. We aren't going to fix it with outrage at our favorite tech demon.
_bxg1 6y ago
This brings up an interesting question: could YouTube be forced to fix its abuse-ridden copyright system by having individuals spam major companies' videos with bogus takedown requests?
- mirimir 6y ago
  Wild guess: Google would just respond by nuking accounts of those submitting bogus takedown requests.

93 points by 101008 6y ago

slg 6y ago

There are no real details at the Reddit link (at the time of posting). As best I can surmise, Gameloft has the exclusive license to mobile Spider-Man games while Sony has the exclusive license to Spider-Man on home consoles. There was probably some automated process either with Gameloft or Youtube that was setup specifically to enforce that exclusive mobile license and accidentally caught the trailer for the Sony game. This will likely get fixed quickly, but it highlights the stupidity of Youtube's copyright system and how leaving it up to the algorithms generates new problems that can only be fixed by humans. The humans will obviously be quick to react when it is a video uploaded by Sony with 11M views. How quickly will they react when your or my videos are inappropriately taken down?

waon 6y ago
You can see what happened in the official PlayStation blog which is linked by the Reddit post. The blog post lists official YouTube trailers for upcoming PS5 games, including the SpiderMan trailer which was taken down. https://blog.playstation.com/2020/06/11/playstation-studios-first-look-at-9-new-ps5-games/ https://blog.playstation.com/2020/06/11/playstation-studios-...
- slg 6y ago
  That blog post only shows what is already included in the title of this HN post. I was trying to add context of both why this might have happened and why it is important.
prox 6y ago
If anyone from Google YT is reading this : when is this ridiculous system going to change? On a similar note : Why is it so hard to license music for small use, especially if you are willing to pay for small audiences use / non-commercial use?
- on_and_off 6y ago
  As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong INAL, this system is only going to change when the legislation changes.
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    I think this mistake might be very effective for it.
    - randallsquared 6y ago
      No, only small independents and consumers want change; the larger firms can all just make special agreements with each other. The fact that there was a blunder here will be deemed the fault of the companies or some hapless employee, not on the system in place.
  - Silhouette 6y ago
    You probably are wrong, because sites like YouTube often operate multiple takedown mechanisms. They have to follow the law in areas where they operate, so for example in the US you have takedown notices under the DMCA, and various other parts of the world have similar provisions. However, there is no reason YouTube cannot also make its own private arrangements with major media companies to provide alternative takedown mechanisms. Retaining such arrangements might be in YouTube's best interests even if laws are changed, because it doesn't want to pick expensive legal fights with rightsholders, so it may be beneficial to offer the big players a relatively simple way to take down content they don't like even if this isn't strictly a legal requirement. The only reason this story is entertaining is that for once it was one of the big rightsholders that got hit by a mistake. But that will get fixed very quickly, and since rightsholders like Marvel probably benefit greatly from YouTube's takedown systems, I think it is extremely unlikely that anything else will change because of this.
- kmeisthax 6y ago
  The system was imposed upon them by 1) licensing agreements with major content companies and 2) EU Copyright Directive Article 17. Actually, EUCD17 is a bit more insidious: it's a sliding scale of "best practices", which means that when content companies demand a better system of one licensee, every other player in the space (regardless of if they do business with that licensee) loses their liability protection until they meet that licensee's standard. That's how they were able to get away with claiming it didn't have upload filters: they just made it so that a court could point to YouTube and say "why aren't you as good as YouTube in taking things down"?
manojlds 6y ago
Last year F1 official YouTube video was taken down by Start Sports (rights holder in India and other regions)
phreack 6y ago
What's astounding is that the video has been down for over 12 hours now at least since I first saw it on a large forum. So not even Sony can get Google to act 'quickly' on a major obvious error! There is zero chance any individual will ever get justice in comparison when this happens to them.
- plerpin 6y ago
  A mechanism for regulatory compliance will probably err on the side of less exposure to lawsuits. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, but the demands imposed by the government for copyright compliance are backed by a bigger stick. Don't kid yourself, any other commercially successful VOD platform will have the exact same problem. A startup might squeak by under the radar for a while, but as soon as it gets critical mass, it won't be long before it gets encumbered by all this regulatory "fun".
  - the_pwner224 6y ago
    > the demands imposed by the government for copyright compliance are backed by a bigger stick Youtube's takedown process goes WAY beyond what the DMCA requires. Youtube is the bitch of / in bed with the big media companies.
    - Wingy 6y ago
      YouTube's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU Edit: Oh someone already posted it here, sorry.
  - CM30 6y ago
    A centralised platform might have the same problem. A decentralised or federated one might not, since no one would have the power to remove anything. Maybe also some blockchain based system where uploads are physically impossible to take down. That's going to be interesting to see the results for court case wise, just like it'll be if illegal content ends up on the Bitcoin one.
literallycancer 6y ago
It's not a problem that the system is automated. The problem is that there is no punishment for bogus claims.
soulofmischief 6y ago
The sad thing is, the nail in the coffin won't be an individual wrongly getting their revenue stolen from them, but one corporation claiming content owned by another corporation.

CaliforniaKarl 6y ago

For everyone asking "Why is YouTube's copyright system like it is? When is it going to change?", I suggest watching Tom Scott's video "YouTube's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is.": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU

carapace 6y ago
(Who is this guy? The youtube comments on that video don't suck.)
- enzanki_ars 6y ago
  Tom Scott is an educational YouTuber that teaches people about a wide range of interesting topics, and there is a reason why his main series is called "Things You Might Not Know." He always ensures that his content is short and to the point, all while maximizing the amount of thoroughly researched information. Funny enough, the video linked regarding copyright is actually one of his more unique projects with a much longer run time and higher production value. Tom Scott is one YouTuber in a small set that I would recommend everybody checkout to learn something cool.
  - iso947 6y ago
    Like Nigel Farage he stood for parliament and failed to get in - in Tom’s case it was due to a split in the pirate vote, as “Mad Capn Tom” was ip against the Pirate Party
newacct583 6y ago
Exactly. Also, it's worth pointing out the fraction of people outraged about Google's process for administrating copyright takedown requests and demanding justice vs. the number who apparently aren't concerned about Gameloft's ability to tell the difference between their own IP and Sony's. Both are mistakes. Why is it Google's job to not make mistakes and not Gameloft's? The system is just broken, agreed. But it's the legal system that is at fault here. We aren't going to fix it with outrage at our favorite tech demon.

_bxg1 6y ago

This brings up an interesting question: could YouTube be forced to fix its abuse-ridden copyright system by having individuals spam major companies' videos with bogus takedown requests?

mirimir 6y ago
Wild guess: Google would just respond by nuking accounts of those submitting bogus takedown requests.