6 ms·

I do not support this change since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race, racism, insensitivity or otherwise abusive behaviour. Both

I do not support this change since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race, racism, insensitivity or otherwise abusive behaviour. Both words appear in the dictionary as they are, normal words without any racial connotation. Both words have been in use for a very long time. The insinuation that the use of these words is in any way racially insensitive is not just nonsensical, it is a way to gain control of the narrative by a politically motivated party. Control over the narrative gives power [1]: Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past [2]. Who controls the narrative, controls the present. [1] https://www.unhcr.org/innovation/narrative-control-power/ https://www.unhcr.org/innovation/narrative-control-power/ [2] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6145-who-controls-the-past-controls-the-future-who-controls-the https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6145-who-controls-the-past-...

DanBC 6y ago
> since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race https://www.etymonline.com/word/master https://www.etymonline.com/word/master > In the broadest sense, "one who has power to control, use, or dispose (of something or some quality) at will," from mid-14c. Also from mid-14c. as "one who employs another or others in his service" (in which sense the correlative word was servant, man, or apprentice); also "owner of a living creature" (dog, horse), also in ancient contexts of slaves; paired with slave in the legal language of the American colonies by 1705 in Virginia. This bit feels like it has a strong connection to racism. > also in ancient contexts of slaves; paired with slave in the legal language of the American colonies by 1705 in Virginia.
- Yetanfou 6y ago
  Nonsense, in the context of slavery - as in humans abusing other humans as forced labour - the word master has this meaning. In the context of a version control system it evidently does not.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    But that's a different claim, isn't it? > since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race, racism, insensitivity or otherwise abusive behaviour. Both words appear in the dictionary as they are, normal words without any racial connotation "Nothing, absolutely nothing". "normal words without any racial connotation". That's untrue, isn't it? Perhaps you just need a better dictionary. https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=master&title=21st https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=master&title=21st > master noun 1 someone especially a man, who commands or controls. 2 the owner, especially a male owner, of a dog, slave, etc.
    - Yetanfou 6y ago
      Let me put it in simple terms: words have different meanings and are used to describe different concepts depending on the context the word is used in. With me so far? Now take the word 'port'. What does it mean? - when you're on a ship it means the place where the ship goes to load and offload goods and people... - ...except for when you're on the bridge in the middle of the ocean and the captain tells you to turn to port in which case it means 'turn to the left'... - ...unless you're in the engine room talking to an engineer who says the cooling water port seems to be clogged for in that case it means the hole in the side of the ship through which water is taken in for cooling the engine... - ...or you're in the radio room where the operator just plugged a network cable into the ethernet port on the satellite comms transceiver... - Then again, when you're in the liquor store it indicates a fortified type of wine... - ...however, when you're at an alcoholics anonymous meating people might take offence at you bandying this word around since their port wine habit nearly cost them their lives. Does the offence taken by alcoholics mean the captain, helmsman, engineer and network technician need to find different words for their ship-haven, left-side-when-facing-forward, water-entry-hole and network-socket? Of course not, don't you agree?
      - sagichmal 6y ago
        Ironically, this example is evidence against your point, not for it. All of these uses of the word "port" share a root semantic etymology, which is the point where two entities interface to exchange goods or information. Exactly the same way that all of the uses of the word "master" to describe a hierarchical relationship share a root semantic etymology, which is someone who owns or controls other human beings.
sagichmal 6y ago
> I do not support this change since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race, racism, insensitivity or otherwise abusive behaviour. It's fine that you believe this, but other people don't agree. Other people believe that the historically racist connotation of "master" in the context of establishing a hierarchical relationship is real, acute, and powerful, especially in the zeitgeist. Other people experience the term "master" in this context as a reminder of that historical (and sometimes not so historical!) racism, which can be painful. Or they experience it as an example of how systemic, institutional racism can persist in extremely small and subtle ways. Or both! I don't think that people who believe these things are believing them in bad faith, or that they're claiming these things for ulterior motives. I think they're being honest when they say they're pained, and I find the arguments about perpetuating systemic racism plausible. So I think it's completely reasonable to use a different word where we can. I think it reduces suffering in the world, and I think that's the best goal that there is.

DanBC 6y ago

> since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race https://www.etymonline.com/word/master https://www.etymonline.com/word/master > In the broadest sense, "one who has power to control, use, or dispose (of something or some quality) at will," from mid-14c. Also from mid-14c. as "one who employs another or others in his service" (in which sense the correlative word was servant, man, or apprentice); also "owner of a living creature" (dog, horse), also in ancient contexts of slaves; paired with slave in the legal language of the American colonies by 1705 in Virginia. This bit feels like it has a strong connection to racism. > also in ancient contexts of slaves; paired with slave in the legal language of the American colonies by 1705 in Virginia.

Yetanfou 6y ago
Nonsense, in the context of slavery - as in humans abusing other humans as forced labour - the word master has this meaning. In the context of a version control system it evidently does not.
- DanBC 6y ago
  But that's a different claim, isn't it? > since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race, racism, insensitivity or otherwise abusive behaviour. Both words appear in the dictionary as they are, normal words without any racial connotation "Nothing, absolutely nothing". "normal words without any racial connotation". That's untrue, isn't it? Perhaps you just need a better dictionary. https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=master&title=21st https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=master&title=21st > master noun 1 someone especially a man, who commands or controls. 2 the owner, especially a male owner, of a dog, slave, etc.
  - Yetanfou 6y ago
    Let me put it in simple terms: words have different meanings and are used to describe different concepts depending on the context the word is used in. With me so far? Now take the word 'port'. What does it mean? - when you're on a ship it means the place where the ship goes to load and offload goods and people... - ...except for when you're on the bridge in the middle of the ocean and the captain tells you to turn to port in which case it means 'turn to the left'... - ...unless you're in the engine room talking to an engineer who says the cooling water port seems to be clogged for in that case it means the hole in the side of the ship through which water is taken in for cooling the engine... - ...or you're in the radio room where the operator just plugged a network cable into the ethernet port on the satellite comms transceiver... - Then again, when you're in the liquor store it indicates a fortified type of wine... - ...however, when you're at an alcoholics anonymous meating people might take offence at you bandying this word around since their port wine habit nearly cost them their lives. Does the offence taken by alcoholics mean the captain, helmsman, engineer and network technician need to find different words for their ship-haven, left-side-when-facing-forward, water-entry-hole and network-socket? Of course not, don't you agree?
    - sagichmal 6y ago
      Ironically, this example is evidence against your point, not for it. All of these uses of the word "port" share a root semantic etymology, which is the point where two entities interface to exchange goods or information. Exactly the same way that all of the uses of the word "master" to describe a hierarchical relationship share a root semantic etymology, which is someone who owns or controls other human beings.

sagichmal 6y ago

> I do not support this change since it has nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - to do with race, racism, insensitivity or otherwise abusive behaviour. It's fine that you believe this, but other people don't agree. Other people believe that the historically racist connotation of "master" in the context of establishing a hierarchical relationship is real, acute, and powerful, especially in the zeitgeist. Other people experience the term "master" in this context as a reminder of that historical (and sometimes not so historical!) racism, which can be painful. Or they experience it as an example of how systemic, institutional racism can persist in extremely small and subtle ways. Or both! I don't think that people who believe these things are believing them in bad faith, or that they're claiming these things for ulterior motives. I think they're being honest when they say they're pained, and I find the arguments about perpetuating systemic racism plausible. So I think it's completely reasonable to use a different word where we can. I think it reduces suffering in the world, and I think that's the best goal that there is.