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> I have LinkedIn profile and ignore it. I also ignore my LinkedIn, but I would not mind it being popular just in case I lose all existing customers and need a

> I have LinkedIn profile and ignore it. I also ignore my LinkedIn, but I would not mind it being popular just in case I lose all existing customers and need a gig for whatever reason. With that in mind, imagine I link to my LinkedIn from my Instagram (let’s imagine my Instagram is very popular), and then see some tired headhunter tweeting “In general on Instagram, software engineers are funneling recruiters to their LinkedIn profile to ignore them”. Whoever wrote that would come across as a needy, frustrated, and possibly as someone who thinks I’m obligated to respond to their messages; but until recruiters start to ambush us engineers in dark alleys I’m not going to worry much about that claim, even though it’s factually incorrect. Now, that scenario becomes a bit more charged with a claim that plays to gender stereotypes and generalizes across a group with a history of discrimination and violence against. > I see nothing wrong behind original sentence. I will rephrase. The original sentence, addressed to a group of supposedly mostly men, attributes scheming or malicious intent (“funnel to ignore”) to something that women do. The wrongness of it is akin to the wrongness of a broke person saying that Apple with its ads “funnels people into stores to withhold shiny gadgets from them”. (Apple is not the only company that advertises; that’s not why it advertises; etc.) The difference is, in our culture as it is now Apple can’t possibly take damage from such a statement, while women regularly suffer violence from men. Why add fuel to this fire if you can express the same idea without? (EDIT: rephrased.)

sergeykish 6y ago
Your profile would not be usual. I don't understand what's going on with gender speech. No matter how I want I can't give birth to baby. Not carry, not breastfeed. This results in different roles in hunter-gatherer society, optimized in genes throughout millennia. We should have same rights but we can't expect same results. We have different stats, we have different brains (hormones whatever). Even children. Boys compete a lot and are in material science. Girls builds groups. It is awesome to watch. Like girls emotional intellect on average is much higher. And boys EQ is much dumber. I believe I can say this. But for some reason in games based on EQ... no, we should be equal. I dance salsa. It is very asymmetric social dance. Man and woman have very distinct roles and we enjoy it a lot. Woman waits for invitation, man can invite, woman can reject. Thus balance is formed. Each dance starts with mini game - invite the one who wants to dance with you. And it is all just for fun. Also men are not expected to reject. I've seen woman inviting men on each dance, that ends badly - exploitation of rules - loss of goodwill. A month later noone invites her, rejected by society. Hope it shows that "ignore" is not bad in some cultures. We should grew respect to who we are and each other. Accept strong and weak sides. That is the best antidote against unreasonable expectations. Sorry, but I think your understanding is just a reflection of yourself. More accurate and neutral rewrite would be speech from personal experience: > Woman I've contacted on dating apps overwhelmingly respond to popular account, otherwise ignore. Like nothing changed at all. No excuses, no expectations just naked truth. That's how it should be read.
- goblin89 6y ago
  No need to apologize, we all tend to understand things in ways that reflect ourselves!
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    Look what I've done here. I've said "dumber" not "lower". You've said nothing. That's double standards.
naasking 6y ago
> The difference is, in our culture as it is now Apple can’t possibly take damage from such a statement, while women regularly suffer violence from men. So your counterfactual claim is that if statements about about women "scheming" didn't exist, violence against women would be lower? That seems like a pretty strong causal claim when all we have is correlative data. It could simply be that the people who are violent against women start and perpetuate such statements, rather than that such statements causes people to be violent towards women.
- goblin89 6y ago
  TL;DR yes to your first sentence, pretty much? I believe that (A) discovering what is considered normal in one’s community influences what one thinks, and (B) what one thinks is not disconnected from what one does. The trap of entitlement is easy to fall into, and if a statement can be interpreted in a way that implies you are owed something and deprived of it by a group who can provide it (that group already having reasons to fear violence from your own group) then I oppose the wording. The existence of such a statement in vacuum does not matter, the trouble starts when it is published in a community. Bonus points if it’s mentioned casually in passing, implying it’s nothing out of ordinary. Bonus points if it goes by unopposed by the community (thankfully, not on HN). Someone in the community may have their existing line of thinking reinforced. Someone else, who does not have an established opinion on this matter but is going through a difficult period in life (which during formative years or early adulthood is not uncommonly associated with lack of intimate relationships), may start considering this idea for the first time. Start feeling belonging to a group where this is normal, and a feedback loop may be formed with horrible publicized outcomes[0] and not unlikely many cases we don’t know about. If you believe that there is no causal link between those outcomes and perpetrators being able to discover communities where relevant opinions were considered normal, then we disagree and I hope you eventually change your mind. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#2010s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#2010s To be clear, this may not even be purposeful. We may not phrase things carefully at all times, and in some cases casual accidental phrasing can imply things we did not actively consider before. Being aware helps.
  - 6y ago

sergeykish 6y ago

Your profile would not be usual. I don't understand what's going on with gender speech. No matter how I want I can't give birth to baby. Not carry, not breastfeed. This results in different roles in hunter-gatherer society, optimized in genes throughout millennia. We should have same rights but we can't expect same results. We have different stats, we have different brains (hormones whatever). Even children. Boys compete a lot and are in material science. Girls builds groups. It is awesome to watch. Like girls emotional intellect on average is much higher. And boys EQ is much dumber. I believe I can say this. But for some reason in games based on EQ... no, we should be equal. I dance salsa. It is very asymmetric social dance. Man and woman have very distinct roles and we enjoy it a lot. Woman waits for invitation, man can invite, woman can reject. Thus balance is formed. Each dance starts with mini game - invite the one who wants to dance with you. And it is all just for fun. Also men are not expected to reject. I've seen woman inviting men on each dance, that ends badly - exploitation of rules - loss of goodwill. A month later noone invites her, rejected by society. Hope it shows that "ignore" is not bad in some cultures. We should grew respect to who we are and each other. Accept strong and weak sides. That is the best antidote against unreasonable expectations. Sorry, but I think your understanding is just a reflection of yourself. More accurate and neutral rewrite would be speech from personal experience: > Woman I've contacted on dating apps overwhelmingly respond to popular account, otherwise ignore. Like nothing changed at all. No excuses, no expectations just naked truth. That's how it should be read.

goblin89 6y ago
No need to apologize, we all tend to understand things in ways that reflect ourselves!
- sergeykish 6y ago
  Look what I've done here. I've said "dumber" not "lower". You've said nothing. That's double standards.

naasking 6y ago

> The difference is, in our culture as it is now Apple can’t possibly take damage from such a statement, while women regularly suffer violence from men. So your counterfactual claim is that if statements about about women "scheming" didn't exist, violence against women would be lower? That seems like a pretty strong causal claim when all we have is correlative data. It could simply be that the people who are violent against women start and perpetuate such statements, rather than that such statements causes people to be violent towards women.

goblin89 6y ago
TL;DR yes to your first sentence, pretty much? I believe that (A) discovering what is considered normal in one’s community influences what one thinks, and (B) what one thinks is not disconnected from what one does. The trap of entitlement is easy to fall into, and if a statement can be interpreted in a way that implies you are owed something and deprived of it by a group who can provide it (that group already having reasons to fear violence from your own group) then I oppose the wording. The existence of such a statement in vacuum does not matter, the trouble starts when it is published in a community. Bonus points if it’s mentioned casually in passing, implying it’s nothing out of ordinary. Bonus points if it goes by unopposed by the community (thankfully, not on HN). Someone in the community may have their existing line of thinking reinforced. Someone else, who does not have an established opinion on this matter but is going through a difficult period in life (which during formative years or early adulthood is not uncommonly associated with lack of intimate relationships), may start considering this idea for the first time. Start feeling belonging to a group where this is normal, and a feedback loop may be formed with horrible publicized outcomes[0] and not unlikely many cases we don’t know about. If you believe that there is no causal link between those outcomes and perpetrators being able to discover communities where relevant opinions were considered normal, then we disagree and I hope you eventually change your mind. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#2010s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#2010s To be clear, this may not even be purposeful. We may not phrase things carefully at all times, and in some cases casual accidental phrasing can imply things we did not actively consider before. Being aware helps.
- 6y ago