7 ms·
From Redmond with Love - IE team sends cake for FF4
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- light3 16y agoThe cake is a lie!
- light3 16y agoSo I've been tracking my karma on this post, its gone something like 1 -> 2 -> 0 -> 5 -> 2 -> 4 -> 0 Appears to be a submartingale(maybe) Ok I stuffed up the experiment by posting this, the sequence after the 5th observations are no longer independent and invalidated.
- enthalpyx 16y agoI wonder if Google gets a cake too...
- tianyicui 16y agoNo wonder Firefox is planning to move to a shorter release cycle!
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- pettazz 16y agoI still think it's funny how they brand the cake with their own IE logo. It's like sending a picture of yourself as a birthday card.
- sliverstorm 16y agoDoes the FF team reciprocate?
- jonursenbach 16y agoFF team reciprocates by putting out a decent browser. Everybody gets cake.
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- olalonde 16y agoBut is the cake standards compliant?
- Derbasti 16y agoI wish more companies would do something like this. Honestly, IE9 and all the surrounding tech media is really leaving an awesome impression on me. Gestures like this prove that the IE team wants to take part in a modern internet world much more than any standard compliance chart ever could. On a side note, I found Office 2010/2011, IE9 and Windows 7 a joy to use. And this is in stark contrast to Office 2003/2008, IE8 or Vista. Some things seem to be changing in Redmond!
- some1else 16y agoNothing will ever bring back hours of IE6 workaround time, or change my mind about using a Windows computer. Cumulatively, developers and clients paid millions in billable hours for their neglect in monopoly. They couldn't warm up to me even if they swapped their board of directors with Sesame Street characters.
- mattmanser 16y agoAnd all the man-years you saved users by using XMLHttpRequest? Otherwise known as AJAX? Or have you conveniently forgotten which browser that was introduced in? One day you should download the version of Netscape that was around when IE6 came out.
- rbanffy 16y agoYou must be talking about the Msxml2.XMLHTTP ActiveX object that wasn't called XMLHttpRequest until the fine Mozilla lads decided calling ActiveX objects was not such a good idea (and wouldn't work in more... civilized operating systems), right? Of course, Microsoft later added the proper XMLHttpRequest support that was lacking in until IE7, IIRC.
- some1else 16y agoYou're correct, during their browser war with Netscape, IE was introducing revolutionary features, albeit not all standards based. They even implemented web fonts in IE4 if I'm not mistaken. And then they sat on it for 4 years, refusing to fully implement the CSS 2.1 spec, refusing to fix ridiculous positioning bugs, and even refusing to fix security flaws that they mandated non-critical, although several of them used together often lead to arbitrary code execution on the client. Like it is with User Experience in general, they ruined all the positive cred they had with IE6, causing standards-aware web devs to develop for the lowest-common denominator or invest their own time on every project for Microsoft's technical debt. It's not fair that IE6 quirking was a required skill and a to-do for web developers, only because Microsoft had a browser share monopoly. Was it to slow down the evolution towards applications/operating system in the cloud? Mere negligence? I don't care anymore, they broke my heart.
- CWIZO 16y ago"Considering the way they drove Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox into near oblivion with devious practices, this seems a lot like sending a valentine’s day card to your rape victim, every year." - from the comments on the original article. But seriously, it's a nice gesture from Microsoft, it goes to show that there are many different people working there and that we can't judge them as a whole.
- blub 16y agoThe comparison to rape is in VERY poor taste and you certainly didn't have to copy it here.
- CWIZO 16y agosheesh lighten-up a little. I find the comparison spot on. Not that I'm saying that what Microsoft did can literary be compared to rape and the horrors it puts a victim trough. I just thought it's a nice metaphor sigh
- sorbus 16y agoIt's not a metaphor, it's a simile.
- lancefisher 16y agoA simile is a metaphor.
- sorbus 16y agoNo, it's a figure of speech. A metaphor is also a figure of speech, but similes are not a subtype of metaphors (I went to look it up both before my last statement and before this one, because I refuse to believe my own memory. You might want to do the same).
- lancefisher 16y ago
- latch 16y agoMaybe I'm in a particularly bad mood, but this was a lot cuter the first time. I hate IE so much that maybe I've become sensitive to everything they do (at least I admit that might be the case). It feel condescending to me, especially in light of the many public embarrassment that FF has caused IE (cheating benchmarks for example) and given that if anyone deserves to get something for actually shipping it's the IE team. To me this is like the owner of a used car company sending a cake to the president of Toyota for being the #1 car manufacturer.
- statictype 16y agoI think it really is because you're in a bad mood. There doesn't seem to be anything backhanded or condescending about this gesture. Hasn't the IE team been doing this since before FF beat them in market share? This is more like the owner of Chevrolet sending a cake to the president of Toyota.
- ZeroGravitas 16y agoAs much as I'd like it to be true, Firefox hasn't yet beaten IE in global market share. They are number one now in Europe (by some stats) and hold pole position in a bunch of countries but IE will need another 6-18 months to lose their #1 position at current rates.
- tomelders 16y agoI'll not lie; I've grown cold and bitter towards IE over the years... but it's hard not to like this.
- stuhacking 16y agoSo, maybe IE isn't a great browser, but it still has actual people working on it. I bet at least one person on the IE team uses Firefox or Chrome in the office for regular browsing. Think of it this way: The people who work on IE are probably well aware of the areas that need improvement. They might not get to make the decisions about where the work is focused. There may not even be enough effort available to put into major changes. Then there's the issue of backwards compatibility that plagues Microsoft products. Microsoft is full of really nice people and talented developers. This is a gracious gesture.
- gregschlom 16y agoIs that the IE3 icon on the cake? Or maybe it's because the cake don't support full-resolution png icing. Anyways, huge improvement over the first one, which was only black and white: http://fredericiana.com/2006/10/24/from-redmond-with-love/ http://fredericiana.com/2006/10/24/from-redmond-with-love/
- some1else 16y agoSee.. Back in 2006 they couldn't even produce a dotted border on a cake, let alone in the browser. edit: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ie6+dotted+border http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ie6+dotted+border
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- notyourwork 16y agoSounds like Microsoft has never heard of the Carlito's Bakery or Charm City Cakes. Considering M$'s size I think the cake could have been a hell of a lot cooler.
- shaggyfrog 16y agoDid they also hold a mock funeral for Firefox when IE9 shipped, a la iPhone/WP7? Or are they finally done with that kind of moronic behaviour?
- nchlswu 16y agothat situation was taken way out of proportion
- rythie 16y agoMaybe it's to say thanks for supporting the other half of Windows users Microsoft forgot, Windows XP users.
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- FirstHopSystems 16y agoI think it's a hoax. If it was the real IE team parts of the cake wouldn't be on the pan. I'm also pretty sure the E would be hanging off the right side.
- geuis 16y agoI get the feeling Firefox gets more cakes from Microsoft than they send in return, if its entirely based on release cycles.
- hanifvirani 16y agoThis is a really nice gesture from Microsoft. A humble example for everyone to learn from.
- maurycy 16y agoA clever MSFT plan. It motivates the Firefox team to increase the number of releases, so they eventually stop the actual development and realize that the infinite supply of free cakes is easily convertable to cash.
- Tyrannosaurs 16y ago> the infinite supply of free cakes is easily convertable to cash. Do you think there's a big market for second hand IE branded cakes? ;-)
- maurycy 16y agoThe market for cheap food is definitely bigger than the browser's market. :-) EDIT: And if their goal is to deliver the best browser, it would be more efficient to buy GOOG shares with the money extracted from cakes. ;->
- jeza 16y agoI guess it keeps the IE developers in a job. IE was neglected before FF started taking market share away. Probably not many (or the right people) working on it before that.
- cop359 16y agoThis is a bit of a naiive question, But what is the business rational behind Microsoft putting so much time and effort into IE? Where is the payback? Is it just so more people have Bing as their default search? Is it just so that Windows ships with a working modern browser as the user expects? If anyone could clear it up for me, Much appreciated =)
- PakG1 16y agoYou could ask the same of Google and Chrome. An excellent treatise on the topic is discussed in Breaking Windows: How Bill Gates Fumbled the Future of Microsoft, by David Bank. It describes a lot of the tensions that existed inside Microsoft as they tried to figure out how to continue selling Windows as a platform, while still seeing the threat of the web as a platform on the horizon. IE was part of that threat response to stay in the game, ahead of the game, and in control of the game.
- cop359 16y agoInteresting point. However it seems like the only way to make big money on the internet is through advertisement and Google has that market locked up. Chrome is just another tool for their social data-mining. I'm sure they keep logs of what searches your IP has made (if you use Google Search), what emails you have read (if you use Gmail) and what websites you visit (through Chrome). If you sign up for any of their services then they can tie a name to an IP and then track what other computers you use (so they will know for instance that a work and home computers belong to the same person). This way they can profile people and then carefully target advertisement towards them. So then they funny result is that the more people use them the better they get; and the better they get, the more people use them. It's a perpetual motion machine, they feed on their own sucess so it almost seems impossible to catch up with them. So are you saying that microsoft is trying to replicate this with the Bing, IE, Live/Hotmail ? Clearly that won't be enough. They're gonna need a huge innovative breakthrough to win this battle...
- PakG1 16y agoI'm not saying Microsoft is trying to replicate this at all. I would posit that Google came and broke the rules of the software industry and made new rules. Microsoft is trying to take the game back. They are admittedly trying to copy Google on a number of points, but who can truly know what Microsoft's end game is and what's going on in their heads except for Microsoft? One thing for sure, Google coming in and messing up the rules is directly attacking Microsoft's bread and butter: Office and Windows. That's where Microsoft makes most of their money, particularly Office. Google has docs, AppEngine, and more. For many mainstream people these days, the browser is the only thing that they need; Microsoft is still powerful, but if the trends continue, they'll be irrelevant. So I'm just claiming that Microsoft's trying to do what they can to rewrite the rules of the game again and take back control while they still have the resources to do so. It's a lot more urgent now than before, which is why Microsoft is so heavily and now visibly investing into things like mobile, cloud computing, and the like. The effort from Microsoft was always there before, but it always seemed half-hearted. 3 years ago, you never would have thought Microsoft would care about web standards to the extent that IE9 does. MS Office was still offline packaged software. Etcetera. Anyway, I highly recommend the book. It's a fascinating read.
- billybob 16y agoAw, isn't that sweet. You know what would be sweeter? A little note attached saying "P.S., we give up, we are switching to Webkit."
- ascendant 16y agoThis is an excuse for people the world over to try and get in their supposed witty slams on IE. I've personally always felt sad for the IE team because I'm sure the engineers want to put out a badass browser that competes with the best the market has to offer, and I'm sure the management and marketing types are the ones that are demanding it's hobbled in certain ways to try and keep their corporate clients on the hook using their products. At least, that's how I envision it.
- sagarun 16y agoThey keep sending cakes, Firefox will keep eating IE's market share cake!
- nickpp 16y agoI guess sending cake to Google on Chrome release wouldn't be as funny. And it would be too often as well.
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