4 ms·

> risk of harm for a few people What harm from meditation ?

abjKT26nO8 6y ago
I've practised meditation in the past and it made my depression worse. Specifically, my thoughts would flow too freely between associations made in the past and made me think about things that I would prefer to have never experienced in my life. Thinking about those things only worsens my condition. I stopped meditating and now I'm much better at compartmentalizing, I have "fences" in my mind which stop me from wandering into dangerous territories by accident. I'd have to make an effort to go past them. I won't do that. Had enough of it already. I know what's good or bad for me. I recommend the book "Altered Traits". It looks at some benefits of meditation documented using scientific methods. But it also says that it may not be good for everyone. Specifically, it may be dangerous for people struggling with depression.
- anon9001 6y ago
  I think your view is extremely under appreciated, especially as it applies to group settings. The trendy idea is about "being present" in physical form and acknowledge (but not engage) with any random thoughts that might come your way. I don't want that feeling unless I'm very specifically seeking it out. Whenever I've had to participate in the "group" versions of these things, I try to think of literally anything else to keep myself distracted until it's over, for fear of wandering into unpleasant territory and causing a mood change when I'm actually supposed to be at work. I wish there was a word for "sitting in silence with others, frantically searching for anything to think about to avoid letting your mind wander into terrifying places". If this mindfulness thing takes off, maybe someone can come up with a clever way to sum that up. It's a very uneasy feeling. Also, why my employer would want me to take a mid-day break to meditate is beyond me. It's like they're trying to make me rethink my life decisions and quit.
- codegladiator 6y ago
  Sorry I might be wrong here but I feel you are not doing it right. I am told to "not think" during meditation, while you mention "Thinking about those things" which seems not "not think". Obviously I am no expert or actually even any good at meditating, but maybe try learning from a different teacher who might be able to help you out in this. Just to reiterate, I might be wrong here and if that's the case just ignore my comment :)
  - ta97879787 6y ago
    Edit: the following is based on my experience, I can't make claims about all meditation. It takes a lot of practice to actually be able to do that. The distraction is the meditation - you need to learn notice it and bring your mind back. The drowsiness is the meditation - you need to learn to notice it and raise your energy. And as you learn to calm your brain without falling asleep, deeper and deeper repressed and ignored thoughts and feeling will come to the surface, because as you're gradually calming all the parts of your mind you are also calming the parts that are repressing the other parts which are enraged and demand a seat at the table. And part of meditation is getting punched in the face by those parts that you have been repressing, until you have faced them, dealt with them, accepted them and integrated them. (Although part of it is also learning when you need to ignore them and not try to "face" or "deal" with them.)
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    > I am told to "not think" during meditation, It's impossible not to think, unless you're dead. You even think while you dream! It is possible to avoid thinking concrete thoughts, but when concrete boundaries around acceptable thoughts are protecting you from trauma that's not a useful thing to do.
    - codegladiator 6y ago
      yeah you are right, so probably an expert meditator might be able to "not think". what we were told to do is think of a single thing/tought/phrase and just keep repeating it, basically minimise the storm of thoughts to one.
waterhouse 6y ago
Collecting quotes from the article: "'Some people [mindfulness] helps, some it can make ’em feel worse. ... [T]hey don’t listen to us, they just tell us to do mindfulness.' ... "Sharp, eloquent, indignant, the students explain what does help them when they are stressed or upset: talking to people they trust, being listened to, having fun. ... They have many ideas about what their school can do to help them, but it seems like no one is listening." Generally speaking, if you're in a bad environment, getting more in tune with your feelings and how you react to your environment can make you feel more acute pain. Conversely, becoming numb and unaware of your feelings can help avoid the pain, and possibly help you remain more functional, at least in the short term. Of course, pain tends to signify a problem that has significance beyond the pain itself (pain for pain's sake would seem to have negative evolutionary value, but e.g. pain that encourages you to avoid sharp objects has positive value), so ignoring it seems like a bad thing in the medium and long term. However, if you have no practical options for fixing the underlying problem, then it may just be pain without gain.

I've practised meditation in the past and it made my depression worse. Specifically, my thoughts would flow too freely between associations made in the past and made me think about things that I would prefer to have never experienced in my life. Thinking about those things only worsens my condition. I stopped meditating and now I'm much better at compartmentalizing, I have "fences" in my mind which stop me from wandering into dangerous territories by accident. I'd have to make an effort to go past them. I won't do that. Had enough of it already. I know what's good or bad for me. I recommend the book "Altered Traits". It looks at some benefits of meditation documented using scientific methods. But it also says that it may not be good for everyone. Specifically, it may be dangerous for people struggling with depression.

anon9001 6y ago
I think your view is extremely under appreciated, especially as it applies to group settings. The trendy idea is about "being present" in physical form and acknowledge (but not engage) with any random thoughts that might come your way. I don't want that feeling unless I'm very specifically seeking it out. Whenever I've had to participate in the "group" versions of these things, I try to think of literally anything else to keep myself distracted until it's over, for fear of wandering into unpleasant territory and causing a mood change when I'm actually supposed to be at work. I wish there was a word for "sitting in silence with others, frantically searching for anything to think about to avoid letting your mind wander into terrifying places". If this mindfulness thing takes off, maybe someone can come up with a clever way to sum that up. It's a very uneasy feeling. Also, why my employer would want me to take a mid-day break to meditate is beyond me. It's like they're trying to make me rethink my life decisions and quit.
codegladiator 6y ago
Sorry I might be wrong here but I feel you are not doing it right. I am told to "not think" during meditation, while you mention "Thinking about those things" which seems not "not think". Obviously I am no expert or actually even any good at meditating, but maybe try learning from a different teacher who might be able to help you out in this. Just to reiterate, I might be wrong here and if that's the case just ignore my comment :)
- ta97879787 6y ago
  Edit: the following is based on my experience, I can't make claims about all meditation. It takes a lot of practice to actually be able to do that. The distraction is the meditation - you need to learn notice it and bring your mind back. The drowsiness is the meditation - you need to learn to notice it and raise your energy. And as you learn to calm your brain without falling asleep, deeper and deeper repressed and ignored thoughts and feeling will come to the surface, because as you're gradually calming all the parts of your mind you are also calming the parts that are repressing the other parts which are enraged and demand a seat at the table. And part of meditation is getting punched in the face by those parts that you have been repressing, until you have faced them, dealt with them, accepted them and integrated them. (Although part of it is also learning when you need to ignore them and not try to "face" or "deal" with them.)
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  > I am told to "not think" during meditation, It's impossible not to think, unless you're dead. You even think while you dream! It is possible to avoid thinking concrete thoughts, but when concrete boundaries around acceptable thoughts are protecting you from trauma that's not a useful thing to do.
  - codegladiator 6y ago
    yeah you are right, so probably an expert meditator might be able to "not think". what we were told to do is think of a single thing/tought/phrase and just keep repeating it, basically minimise the storm of thoughts to one.

waterhouse 6y ago

Collecting quotes from the article: "'Some people [mindfulness] helps, some it can make ’em feel worse. ... [T]hey don’t listen to us, they just tell us to do mindfulness.' ... "Sharp, eloquent, indignant, the students explain what does help them when they are stressed or upset: talking to people they trust, being listened to, having fun. ... They have many ideas about what their school can do to help them, but it seems like no one is listening." Generally speaking, if you're in a bad environment, getting more in tune with your feelings and how you react to your environment can make you feel more acute pain. Conversely, becoming numb and unaware of your feelings can help avoid the pain, and possibly help you remain more functional, at least in the short term. Of course, pain tends to signify a problem that has significance beyond the pain itself (pain for pain's sake would seem to have negative evolutionary value, but e.g. pain that encourages you to avoid sharp objects has positive value), so ignoring it seems like a bad thing in the medium and long term. However, if you have no practical options for fixing the underlying problem, then it may just be pain without gain.