3 ms·

Education is an issue. Very few programmers actually know what functional programming even is or how it can help. Also 40 years ago we had what? LISP as is com

Education is an issue. Very few programmers actually know what functional programming even is or how it can help. Also 40 years ago we had what? LISP as is commonly used is not an FP language. ML was nice but there wasn't much FP done in ML either. The advancements to make FP practical, like good garbage collectors, laziness, monads, good persistent data structures, are newer.

tinco 6y ago
I don't know, as far as I know functional programming is a standard course in computer science university curriculum. I've only been part of small dev teams so far, but of those teams always more than half were university educated, and none of them continued functional programming after university. Of all my university friends only one did Haskell outside of university that I know of (maybe there's some secret Scala/F# lovers at Java/.net firms). I've been part of the Haskell community, so it's not like I don't know Haskell programmers, but I'm saying I know a lot of formally educated programmers, and only very few of them took a liking to functional programming to an extent they'd do it professionally or even as a hobby.
- walleeee 6y ago
  I think there are quite a few closet "functional" programmers, who may not even consider themselves as such, doing their best to write mostly side-effect-free, declarative code within the confines of an OO or multi-paradigm language (in .NET land, functional-ish features like LINQ and pattern-matching bleeding into C# makes this easier). I also met more than one person trying to introduce F#/Scala in a pretty small .NET shop I used to work for.
mafribe 6y ago
Many universities teach FP to their undergraduates, some of them even use Haskell as their first programming language. I have published at ICFP and in the JFP, and understand garbage collectors, laziness, monads, good persistent data structures very well. Yet, I prefer CBV to lazy evaluation, I prefer full unrestricted support for imperative programming, I don't think Haskell approach to effects by monads is ideal (I prefer Scala's giving you the option to tame effects by monads). There is a reason why, despite near half a century since Backus' "Can programming be liberated from the von Neumann style?", CUDA dominates HPC, C++/C (and Rust) dominate mainstream infrastructure programming, Go took the cloud world by storm, ML is dominated by Python, front-end is dominated by Javascript/Typescript, hardware design is dominated by Verilog, and business computing (for lack of a better term) is dominated by Java/C#. I really don't think the reason is that everybody is too uneducated to realise the benefits of Haskell.

tinco 6y ago

I don't know, as far as I know functional programming is a standard course in computer science university curriculum. I've only been part of small dev teams so far, but of those teams always more than half were university educated, and none of them continued functional programming after university. Of all my university friends only one did Haskell outside of university that I know of (maybe there's some secret Scala/F# lovers at Java/.net firms). I've been part of the Haskell community, so it's not like I don't know Haskell programmers, but I'm saying I know a lot of formally educated programmers, and only very few of them took a liking to functional programming to an extent they'd do it professionally or even as a hobby.

walleeee 6y ago
I think there are quite a few closet "functional" programmers, who may not even consider themselves as such, doing their best to write mostly side-effect-free, declarative code within the confines of an OO or multi-paradigm language (in .NET land, functional-ish features like LINQ and pattern-matching bleeding into C# makes this easier). I also met more than one person trying to introduce F#/Scala in a pretty small .NET shop I used to work for.

mafribe 6y ago

Many universities teach FP to their undergraduates, some of them even use Haskell as their first programming language. I have published at ICFP and in the JFP, and understand garbage collectors, laziness, monads, good persistent data structures very well. Yet, I prefer CBV to lazy evaluation, I prefer full unrestricted support for imperative programming, I don't think Haskell approach to effects by monads is ideal (I prefer Scala's giving you the option to tame effects by monads). There is a reason why, despite near half a century since Backus' "Can programming be liberated from the von Neumann style?", CUDA dominates HPC, C++/C (and Rust) dominate mainstream infrastructure programming, Go took the cloud world by storm, ML is dominated by Python, front-end is dominated by Javascript/Typescript, hardware design is dominated by Verilog, and business computing (for lack of a better term) is dominated by Java/C#. I really don't think the reason is that everybody is too uneducated to realise the benefits of Haskell.