5 ms·

This started as a great comment but I don't understand the non sequitur into casual mysoginy.

vmception 6y ago
There was no dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women in that paragraph. Please don't dilute real issues with your general awkwardness and discomfort.
- Kaze404 6y ago
  > In general on dating apps, women are funneling people to their instagram profile to ignore them. If you have a popular account its a night and day difference.
  - vmception 6y ago
    Can you elaborate on how you would acknowledge that valid reality? Is there a different wording you would use if it was indeed common and accurate outcome? From my perspective there is no contempt, only circumvention and the reason why.
    - goblin89 6y ago
      Before claiming that group X does Y to cause outcome Z that is unpleasant to someone, it is worth considering: 1. Is Y really a behavior exclusive to group X? 2. Is behavior Y fair to generalize across members of group X? 3. Is outcome Z the intended purpose of behavior Y, or is a side-effect that someone might take painfully? For example, the sentiment of “In general on dating apps, women are funneling people to their instagram profile to ignore them” might read like at best someone low-key thinks women owe others attention. Using a dating profile to promote another social media profile is something any attractive person might reasonably consider, and (barring some extraordinary looks, etc.) reaching out to them from a social profile with a lot of clout could be a way to get attention—clout likely being what that person respects, as they themselves are purposefully trying to acquire it.
      - sergeykish 6y ago
        I have LinkedIn profile and ignore it. HRs may say it loud, sorry, most of the time I do not seek job offer. Would I respond if someone I value send me an email? Government: "Only you can save Earth from Aliens". Hell, yeah! It is not language that hurts, it is what behind it. I see nothing wrong behind original sentence. In yours I feel lie - there is something shameful, something that can't be said. Also you've changed "dating apps users" to "any attractive person" which is awful judgement. Population versus gamers of one particular style. This style strongly reminds me of George Orwells "Politics and the English Language" (1946), I hope it will not live. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Langu...
        goblin89 6y ago
        > I have LinkedIn profile and ignore it. I also ignore my LinkedIn, but I would not mind it being popular just in case I lose all existing customers and need a gig for whatever reason. With that in mind, imagine I link to my LinkedIn from my Instagram (let’s imagine my Instagram is very popular), and then see some tired headhunter tweeting “In general on Instagram, software engineers are funneling recruiters to their LinkedIn profile to ignore them”. Whoever wrote that would come across as a needy, frustrated, and possibly as someone who thinks I’m obligated to respond to their messages; but until recruiters start to ambush us engineers in dark alleys I’m not going to worry much about that claim, even though it’s factually incorrect. Now, that scenario becomes a bit more charged with a claim that plays to gender stereotypes and generalizes across a group with a history of discrimination and violence against. > I see nothing wrong behind original sentence. I will rephrase. The original sentence, addressed to a group of supposedly mostly men, attributes scheming or malicious intent (“funnel to ignore”) to something that women do. The wrongness of it is akin to the wrongness of a broke person saying that Apple with its ads “funnels people into stores to withhold shiny gadgets from them”. (Apple is not the only company that advertises; that’s not why it advertises; etc.) The difference is, in our culture as it is now Apple can’t possibly take damage from such a statement, while women regularly suffer violence from men. Why add fuel to this fire if you can express the same idea without? (EDIT: rephrased.)
    - lowtolerance 6y ago
      It’s not a “valid reality”, it’s the anecdotal experience of someone who uses dating apps to collect attractive women. In general, this is not how women behave on dating apps. This is how models who are obviously self-promoting through dating apps behave; it’s only your general experience because this is clearly what you are drawn to.
      - goldenkey 6y ago
        This isn't the least bit true. Tinder and the like are filled with spamming "influencers" that are pretty much only using the platforms to funnel simps to their IG and other social accounts, in order to gain more followers. Modern day spam, essentially.
        lowtolerance 6y ago
        I don’t doubt that they exist, I’m saying that in no way do those accounts outweigh legitimate, non-spam accounts that stick out like a sore thing to anyone with a shred of common sense.
        goldenkey 6y ago
        They do outweigh them, on Tinder. I've used Tinder in multiple cities and it has the same spammer problem as Craigslist now has.
      - vmception 6y ago
        its "anybody that puts their instagram profile in their dating app bio" not "models self-promoting that represent any meaningful amount of what I'm drawn to" people passively grow their instagrams and don't have any interest in checking their messages the behavior I actually navigate is completely outside of the dating apps I see the billboard (on the dating app) and found a way to get to the top of their inbox for quality time (outside of the dating app). Never even attempting to "match with them" on the dating app. The other side of the control group is an experience of what happens when a normal bloke tries messaging them on instagram: absolutely nothing
austhrow743 6y ago
Equating a desire for sex with women with misogyny is in itself discriminatory. I'm not sure if its discriminatory against women or against men, maybe just both, but its certainly one of them.
- Kaze404 6y ago
  That's not the mysoginistic part.
  - csunbird 6y ago
    Please do not confuse misogyny with facts. If he said "I would to that and that would have worked because women are like this" that would be misogyny. But stating something he tried and did succeed is a fact.
- vmception 6y ago
  > Equating a desire for sex with women with misogyny is in itself discriminatory. It fits the definition for misandry. Ironically. Equating courtship advantage things men do with contempt is inherently misandrist (or we're at an impasse). I hope people are able to reconcile their corrosive relationships and prior life experiences to be more collaborative.

There was no dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women in that paragraph. Please don't dilute real issues with your general awkwardness and discomfort.

Kaze404 6y ago
> In general on dating apps, women are funneling people to their instagram profile to ignore them. If you have a popular account its a night and day difference.
- vmception 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on how you would acknowledge that valid reality? Is there a different wording you would use if it was indeed common and accurate outcome? From my perspective there is no contempt, only circumvention and the reason why.
  - goblin89 6y ago
    Before claiming that group X does Y to cause outcome Z that is unpleasant to someone, it is worth considering: 1. Is Y really a behavior exclusive to group X? 2. Is behavior Y fair to generalize across members of group X? 3. Is outcome Z the intended purpose of behavior Y, or is a side-effect that someone might take painfully? For example, the sentiment of “In general on dating apps, women are funneling people to their instagram profile to ignore them” might read like at best someone low-key thinks women owe others attention. Using a dating profile to promote another social media profile is something any attractive person might reasonably consider, and (barring some extraordinary looks, etc.) reaching out to them from a social profile with a lot of clout could be a way to get attention—clout likely being what that person respects, as they themselves are purposefully trying to acquire it.
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      I have LinkedIn profile and ignore it. HRs may say it loud, sorry, most of the time I do not seek job offer. Would I respond if someone I value send me an email? Government: "Only you can save Earth from Aliens". Hell, yeah! It is not language that hurts, it is what behind it. I see nothing wrong behind original sentence. In yours I feel lie - there is something shameful, something that can't be said. Also you've changed "dating apps users" to "any attractive person" which is awful judgement. Population versus gamers of one particular style. This style strongly reminds me of George Orwells "Politics and the English Language" (1946), I hope it will not live. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Langu...
      - goblin89 6y ago
        > I have LinkedIn profile and ignore it. I also ignore my LinkedIn, but I would not mind it being popular just in case I lose all existing customers and need a gig for whatever reason. With that in mind, imagine I link to my LinkedIn from my Instagram (let’s imagine my Instagram is very popular), and then see some tired headhunter tweeting “In general on Instagram, software engineers are funneling recruiters to their LinkedIn profile to ignore them”. Whoever wrote that would come across as a needy, frustrated, and possibly as someone who thinks I’m obligated to respond to their messages; but until recruiters start to ambush us engineers in dark alleys I’m not going to worry much about that claim, even though it’s factually incorrect. Now, that scenario becomes a bit more charged with a claim that plays to gender stereotypes and generalizes across a group with a history of discrimination and violence against. > I see nothing wrong behind original sentence. I will rephrase. The original sentence, addressed to a group of supposedly mostly men, attributes scheming or malicious intent (“funnel to ignore”) to something that women do. The wrongness of it is akin to the wrongness of a broke person saying that Apple with its ads “funnels people into stores to withhold shiny gadgets from them”. (Apple is not the only company that advertises; that’s not why it advertises; etc.) The difference is, in our culture as it is now Apple can’t possibly take damage from such a statement, while women regularly suffer violence from men. Why add fuel to this fire if you can express the same idea without? (EDIT: rephrased.)
  - lowtolerance 6y ago
    It’s not a “valid reality”, it’s the anecdotal experience of someone who uses dating apps to collect attractive women. In general, this is not how women behave on dating apps. This is how models who are obviously self-promoting through dating apps behave; it’s only your general experience because this is clearly what you are drawn to.
    - goldenkey 6y ago
      This isn't the least bit true. Tinder and the like are filled with spamming "influencers" that are pretty much only using the platforms to funnel simps to their IG and other social accounts, in order to gain more followers. Modern day spam, essentially.
      - lowtolerance 6y ago
        I don’t doubt that they exist, I’m saying that in no way do those accounts outweigh legitimate, non-spam accounts that stick out like a sore thing to anyone with a shred of common sense.
        goldenkey 6y ago
        They do outweigh them, on Tinder. I've used Tinder in multiple cities and it has the same spammer problem as Craigslist now has.
    - vmception 6y ago
      its "anybody that puts their instagram profile in their dating app bio" not "models self-promoting that represent any meaningful amount of what I'm drawn to" people passively grow their instagrams and don't have any interest in checking their messages the behavior I actually navigate is completely outside of the dating apps I see the billboard (on the dating app) and found a way to get to the top of their inbox for quality time (outside of the dating app). Never even attempting to "match with them" on the dating app. The other side of the control group is an experience of what happens when a normal bloke tries messaging them on instagram: absolutely nothing

austhrow743 6y ago

Equating a desire for sex with women with misogyny is in itself discriminatory. I'm not sure if its discriminatory against women or against men, maybe just both, but its certainly one of them.

Kaze404 6y ago
That's not the mysoginistic part.
- csunbird 6y ago
  Please do not confuse misogyny with facts. If he said "I would to that and that would have worked because women are like this" that would be misogyny. But stating something he tried and did succeed is a fact.
vmception 6y ago
> Equating a desire for sex with women with misogyny is in itself discriminatory. It fits the definition for misandry. Ironically. Equating courtship advantage things men do with contempt is inherently misandrist (or we're at an impasse). I hope people are able to reconcile their corrosive relationships and prior life experiences to be more collaborative.