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Not convinced. I’m using utility solar for about 20% of my electricity needs, precisely to experience what’s claimed. Average cost is 50% above regular sourcin

Not convinced. I’m using utility solar for about 20% of my electricity needs, precisely to experience what’s claimed. Average cost is 50% above regular sourcing, and rising significantly. https://twitter.com/ctdonath/status/1274157769889918978?s=21 https://twitter.com/ctdonath/status/1274157769889918978?s=21

MattGaiser 6y ago
Is that a price of power rise or a price of transmission rise?
- beambot 6y ago
  In many places, it's the "fees because we can" rise.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    We have that here too. Plenty of “fees.”
- ctdonath 6y ago
  That’s the curious bit: power generated per flat panel-rental fee is decreasing. Rental cost is consistent.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    Are people willing to pay a green premium for it? We have a company near me that has some of the cheapest power sources from wind, but they used to market with the slogan “pay more for power.”
killjoywashere 6y ago
We did a PPA for full replacement at a time in our life when we were probably at max usage (2 teenagers at home, all electric appliances) and haven't looked back. Our monthly bill immediately dropped and stayed down. As far as I can tell, the only thing I need to worry about is the risk of deflation, and there's not much I can do about that.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  It GREATLY depends on where you live. Where I live, solar is not a good option. Terrible yield on many cloudy days - horrible yield in winter.
dd36 6y ago
I installed 10kW on my home DIY in AZ. Cost was $1.00W and $0.70W after tax incentive. It took me 3 weekends all by myself. It works out to like 1.7c/kWh over the life of the asset. Next step is to add batteries and go off grid. Right now, the utility pays me 9.6c/kWh so I’m not in a rush until they further sabotage net metering. My cost pre-solar was 14-16c/kWh. Also, the cap on grid connected was 10kW and it’s about to go to 20kW. Oh, and I had never done it before. Read a lot and watched videos. Technology is making it plug and play.
- m463 6y ago
  That's a wonderful achievement. I've browsed www.sunelec.com for years because they sell pallets of panels for less than 0.50/watt and I think ... someday DIY.
  - dd36 6y ago
    I bought panels from https://www.santansolar.com/ https://www.santansolar.com/. Enphase micros and Ironridge racking from https://tandem-solar-systems.com/ https://tandem-solar-systems.com/. Then I made permits using https://get.solardesigntool.com/ https://get.solardesigntool.com/. All-in-all, it was fun and easy.
    - cinquemb 6y ago
      That's pretty cool, I wonder what your $/kwh would jump to with battery storage… probably a significant jump compared to 1.7 cents/kwh over the lifetime (esp consider degradation of electrochemical batteries over charging cycles) SolarReserve bid under 5 cents/kwh in Chile in 2017 for a grid scale 24/7 CSP/molten salt storage system… we'd probably need a safer way to transport molten salt tanks from high Irradiance areas to local grids to give 5 cents/kwh for most people though.
      - dd36 6y ago
        So 2 Powerwalls should cover me. That’s 27kWh but only 14kWac peak. It’s the peak that’s really the issue. If I’m running a furnace and my stove, it may go over. But currently 2 PW is $17,000 with 10 year warranty. That’s $142/mo. If they work for 20 years, that’s half. Enphase is coming out with its own system. Anyways, it already makes sense but for peak usage. I only use 15kWh max a night but my peak can be up to 20kWac for a few minutes at a time. If battery makers can increase peak of home stationary batteries - Tesla cars peak much higher, like 400kW - and Tesla’s battery costs are under $100/kWh, the end is nigh for electric utilities. They need to start stringing fiber. End is even closer if Tesla enables vehicle2grid soon.

MattGaiser 6y ago

Is that a price of power rise or a price of transmission rise?

beambot 6y ago
In many places, it's the "fees because we can" rise.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  We have that here too. Plenty of “fees.”
ctdonath 6y ago
That’s the curious bit: power generated per flat panel-rental fee is decreasing. Rental cost is consistent.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  Are people willing to pay a green premium for it? We have a company near me that has some of the cheapest power sources from wind, but they used to market with the slogan “pay more for power.”

killjoywashere 6y ago

We did a PPA for full replacement at a time in our life when we were probably at max usage (2 teenagers at home, all electric appliances) and haven't looked back. Our monthly bill immediately dropped and stayed down. As far as I can tell, the only thing I need to worry about is the risk of deflation, and there's not much I can do about that.

koheripbal 6y ago
It GREATLY depends on where you live. Where I live, solar is not a good option. Terrible yield on many cloudy days - horrible yield in winter.

dd36 6y ago

I installed 10kW on my home DIY in AZ. Cost was $1.00W and $0.70W after tax incentive. It took me 3 weekends all by myself. It works out to like 1.7c/kWh over the life of the asset. Next step is to add batteries and go off grid. Right now, the utility pays me 9.6c/kWh so I’m not in a rush until they further sabotage net metering. My cost pre-solar was 14-16c/kWh. Also, the cap on grid connected was 10kW and it’s about to go to 20kW. Oh, and I had never done it before. Read a lot and watched videos. Technology is making it plug and play.

m463 6y ago
That's a wonderful achievement. I've browsed www.sunelec.com for years because they sell pallets of panels for less than 0.50/watt and I think ... someday DIY.
- dd36 6y ago
  I bought panels from https://www.santansolar.com/ https://www.santansolar.com/. Enphase micros and Ironridge racking from https://tandem-solar-systems.com/ https://tandem-solar-systems.com/. Then I made permits using https://get.solardesigntool.com/ https://get.solardesigntool.com/. All-in-all, it was fun and easy.
  - cinquemb 6y ago
    That's pretty cool, I wonder what your $/kwh would jump to with battery storage… probably a significant jump compared to 1.7 cents/kwh over the lifetime (esp consider degradation of electrochemical batteries over charging cycles) SolarReserve bid under 5 cents/kwh in Chile in 2017 for a grid scale 24/7 CSP/molten salt storage system… we'd probably need a safer way to transport molten salt tanks from high Irradiance areas to local grids to give 5 cents/kwh for most people though.
    - dd36 6y ago
      So 2 Powerwalls should cover me. That’s 27kWh but only 14kWac peak. It’s the peak that’s really the issue. If I’m running a furnace and my stove, it may go over. But currently 2 PW is $17,000 with 10 year warranty. That’s $142/mo. If they work for 20 years, that’s half. Enphase is coming out with its own system. Anyways, it already makes sense but for peak usage. I only use 15kWh max a night but my peak can be up to 20kWac for a few minutes at a time. If battery makers can increase peak of home stationary batteries - Tesla cars peak much higher, like 400kW - and Tesla’s battery costs are under $100/kWh, the end is nigh for electric utilities. They need to start stringing fiber. End is even closer if Tesla enables vehicle2grid soon.