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Because it's not a monopoly. Apple is roughly half of the marketshare in the US, and dramatically lower than that worldwide. They're also not saying that Hey c

Because it's not a monopoly. Apple is roughly half of the marketshare in the US, and dramatically lower than that worldwide. They're also not saying that Hey can't be in their store, or even needs to pay them anything. Hey could offer a free tier and wouldn't owe Apple a dime. Basecamp already does this so they know it very well.

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
s/monopoly/anti-competitive
- screwycaboose 6y ago
  Is it anti-competitive? Apple literally told them how they could reapply the app in a way where they would owe Apple $0. Which again, Basecamp already does. They know this is how it is and how to work around it, but they're pitching a fit because they don't want to do it. I'm a bit ornery about this because Basecamp is using the plight of other developers now only because it suits their bottom line. Where have they been for the past decade? They've been raking in money off the App store for years.
twicetwice 6y ago
They certainly have a monopoly on "distributing software to iPhones." I don't get why no one makes this point. One could argue it's a monopoly they've earned. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But certainly there is a market for iPhone app distribution, and Apple has a monopoly in that market.
- nodamage 6y ago
  Because at that point you've redefined the word "monopoly" to the point where it becomes tautological.
  - twicetwice 6y ago
    How so? Seriously. There seem to be lots of people who don't consider Apple to have a monopoly in any market, and I just don't get it. Can you explain the argument for that position?
    - nodamage 6y ago
      Because there are meaningful alternatives to the iPhone on the market. If I claim that a gas station has a monopoly within a three block radius, that might be technically true, but only because of the constraints I applied. It's not actually a meaningful distinction if the consumer can drive down a bit further and find another gas station.
      - twicetwice 6y ago
        Right, but when it comes to selling software to people who have iPhones — there's a market for that, right? — Apple clearly has a monopoly in that market. Imo it's more like saying, "Foocorp in the US doesn't have a monopoly, since you can always move to Canada and buy from BarCo or one of its competitors there!" Well, Foocorp is still the only seller in the US, so they have a monopoly in that market.
        nodamage 6y ago
        > Right, but when it comes to selling software to people who have iPhones — there's a market for that, right? — Apple clearly has a monopoly in that market. Sure. I also have a monopoly in the market of "selling lemonade on my front lawn". Is that a meaningful distinction? > Imo it's more like saying, "Foocorp in the US doesn't have a monopoly, since you can always move to Canada and buy from BarCo or one of its competitors there!" Well, Foocorp is still the only seller in the US, so they have a monopoly in that market. No one would consider moving to another country a realistic alternative. So in that situation, yes, there is a monopoly because the consumer does not have a realistic alternative. If a gas station is the only gas station in the city, then it too would have a monopoly in that city, because driving to the next city every time you needed gas is not realistic.

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago

s/monopoly/anti-competitive

screwycaboose 6y ago
Is it anti-competitive? Apple literally told them how they could reapply the app in a way where they would owe Apple $0. Which again, Basecamp already does. They know this is how it is and how to work around it, but they're pitching a fit because they don't want to do it. I'm a bit ornery about this because Basecamp is using the plight of other developers now only because it suits their bottom line. Where have they been for the past decade? They've been raking in money off the App store for years.

twicetwice 6y ago

They certainly have a monopoly on "distributing software to iPhones." I don't get why no one makes this point. One could argue it's a monopoly they've earned. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But certainly there is a market for iPhone app distribution, and Apple has a monopoly in that market.

nodamage 6y ago
Because at that point you've redefined the word "monopoly" to the point where it becomes tautological.
- twicetwice 6y ago
  How so? Seriously. There seem to be lots of people who don't consider Apple to have a monopoly in any market, and I just don't get it. Can you explain the argument for that position?
  - nodamage 6y ago
    Because there are meaningful alternatives to the iPhone on the market. If I claim that a gas station has a monopoly within a three block radius, that might be technically true, but only because of the constraints I applied. It's not actually a meaningful distinction if the consumer can drive down a bit further and find another gas station.
    - twicetwice 6y ago
      Right, but when it comes to selling software to people who have iPhones — there's a market for that, right? — Apple clearly has a monopoly in that market. Imo it's more like saying, "Foocorp in the US doesn't have a monopoly, since you can always move to Canada and buy from BarCo or one of its competitors there!" Well, Foocorp is still the only seller in the US, so they have a monopoly in that market.
      - nodamage 6y ago
        > Right, but when it comes to selling software to people who have iPhones — there's a market for that, right? — Apple clearly has a monopoly in that market. Sure. I also have a monopoly in the market of "selling lemonade on my front lawn". Is that a meaningful distinction? > Imo it's more like saying, "Foocorp in the US doesn't have a monopoly, since you can always move to Canada and buy from BarCo or one of its competitors there!" Well, Foocorp is still the only seller in the US, so they have a monopoly in that market. No one would consider moving to another country a realistic alternative. So in that situation, yes, there is a monopoly because the consumer does not have a realistic alternative. If a gas station is the only gas station in the city, then it too would have a monopoly in that city, because driving to the next city every time you needed gas is not realistic.