4 ms·

>> coupled at the type level, but not logically coupled? float multiply(float a, float b) { return a * b; } You can’t add doubles with this code because i

>> coupled at the type level, but not logically coupled? float multiply(float a, float b) { return a * b; } You can’t add doubles with this code because it’s coupled to the float type. Summing a for b times has no logical coupling to floats or doubles just as floats or doubles have no logical coupling to either implementation of addition - both types are added by the same operations. You can swap the types or the algorithm. Before you reach for the polymorphism or further pollute the universe of types consider that it costs less lines of code to erase types here. What errors would preserving types help with here? What has more utility, less lines of code spent for the same outcomes or an implementation that exists further along the spectrum of typing in the “at compile time” direction? - I don’t believe that question can be answered but in practice i find less lines of code correlates more strongly with outcomes i care about than the degree of typing applied.

jakear 6y ago
> What errors would preserving types help with here? Pretty simple, it helps when you do a refactoring that changes the type of the value passed somewhere from number to number[] and the compiler instantly tells you that that’s illegal. I did something similar just the other day when I had a shared config file read by both TS scripts and Python scripts and I needed to change the format to support a new feature. On the ts side I updated the typedef and the compiler pointed out to me every area that needed updating, on the Python side I had to spend a good chunk of time manually going through the script to figure out what needed updating.
- CraigJPerry 6y ago
  >> it helps when you do a refactoring that changes the type of the value passed somewhere from number to number[] Typing isn't a strong enough tool to combat that class of problem; you can fix the type signatures while introducing a semantic break. You need tests and if you have tests, what does typing bring? Keep your tests fast, measure and maintain a speed of >250 tests per second and remember to test behaviour not implementation - you won't go far wrong. IDEs have been performing refactoring changes on our behalf in dynamic languages for years at this point. Don't manually edit when we've never had such powerful tooling available to us * https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/product-refactoring-tutorial.html * https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/structural-search-and-replace.html Even concepts that i'd say are strictly the domain of static typying, like automatically pruning dead code behind retired feature flags, make headway today: https://github.com/jendrikseipp/vulture https://github.com/jendrikseipp/vulture Typing has a time and a place, that is without a doubt but the world is better viewed without the static typing lens permanently affixed in place, your efficacy will increase.
  - jakear 6y ago
    I don’t have tests for these small utility scripts and they work perfectly well. Tests also don’t pinpoint the error. I’d never choose to have myself do more work if it’s not needed and the computer can do it. Those automated refactorings would Not have helped in the situation I mentioned above.
    - CraigJPerry 6y ago
      Testing isn’t solely about whether code works today - you’re unlikely to checkin something completely broken. In fact i advocate NO tests for throwaway code, move fast. It’s whether it continues to work tomorrow after you’ve added or removed a behaviour. Tests are the secret sauce that keep the cost of change low. Refactoring (a commit with zero changes to test code) is the other key pillar of long term codebase health.

jakear 6y ago

> What errors would preserving types help with here? Pretty simple, it helps when you do a refactoring that changes the type of the value passed somewhere from number to number[] and the compiler instantly tells you that that’s illegal. I did something similar just the other day when I had a shared config file read by both TS scripts and Python scripts and I needed to change the format to support a new feature. On the ts side I updated the typedef and the compiler pointed out to me every area that needed updating, on the Python side I had to spend a good chunk of time manually going through the script to figure out what needed updating.

CraigJPerry 6y ago
>> it helps when you do a refactoring that changes the type of the value passed somewhere from number to number[] Typing isn't a strong enough tool to combat that class of problem; you can fix the type signatures while introducing a semantic break. You need tests and if you have tests, what does typing bring? Keep your tests fast, measure and maintain a speed of >250 tests per second and remember to test behaviour not implementation - you won't go far wrong. IDEs have been performing refactoring changes on our behalf in dynamic languages for years at this point. Don't manually edit when we've never had such powerful tooling available to us * https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/product-refactoring-tutorial.html * https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/structural-search-and-replace.html Even concepts that i'd say are strictly the domain of static typying, like automatically pruning dead code behind retired feature flags, make headway today: https://github.com/jendrikseipp/vulture https://github.com/jendrikseipp/vulture Typing has a time and a place, that is without a doubt but the world is better viewed without the static typing lens permanently affixed in place, your efficacy will increase.
- jakear 6y ago
  I don’t have tests for these small utility scripts and they work perfectly well. Tests also don’t pinpoint the error. I’d never choose to have myself do more work if it’s not needed and the computer can do it. Those automated refactorings would Not have helped in the situation I mentioned above.
  - CraigJPerry 6y ago
    Testing isn’t solely about whether code works today - you’re unlikely to checkin something completely broken. In fact i advocate NO tests for throwaway code, move fast. It’s whether it continues to work tomorrow after you’ve added or removed a behaviour. Tests are the secret sauce that keep the cost of change low. Refactoring (a commit with zero changes to test code) is the other key pillar of long term codebase health.