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While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. The majority of them are companion apps f

While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. The majority of them are companion apps for physical products/memberships for which the rules around in-app purchases do not apply: Tesla, Soho House, Wells Fargo, Blue Cross / Blue Shield, WeWork. Github has a free tier and doesn't require a paying membership to use. Netflix is a digital content app for which there is a specific exemption under rule 3.1.3(a). Bloomberg and Salesforce might also fall under the 3.1.3(a) exemption for "access to professional databases", I'm not sure. App Store Connect is their own app. Apple's apps have always been able to use private APIs and do other things the rest of us can't. The only other app in this list that is actually similar to Hey in terms of product type and monetization is Fastmail. (And it looks like Fastmail was recently asked to add IAP to their app as well.) The rules around in-app purchases have been well known for a long time (by iOS devs at least, clearly not by the general public or even tech people). Releasing an app that does not follow the rules and then publicly complaining when it is inevitably rejected is starting to seem more like a guerrilla marketing tactic more than anything else. (And a clever one too, I don't think yet-another-email-app would have gotten nearly the same amount of press coverage that this has.)

gruez 6y ago
>While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. Yeah, the first few items on the list were relatively convincing, but the convincing-ness takes a nosedive further down the list. I mean, who in their right mind would compare hey to a companion app for a car?
- SpaceRaccoon 6y ago
  It's not about that. It's about the VP's explanation being disingenuous. Apple's issue isn't that the app doesn't work, despite their claim. It's that they can't collect money. They should just be honest.
  - nodamage 6y ago
    I agree that's a crappy explanation by the VP but that's not the actual reason for the rejection.
    - etse 6y ago
      I too think it’s a poor response from the head of the App Store but we shouldn’t pretend to think we know the “actual” reason that much better because we are given a link to the ever-changing App Store regulations webpage.
      - nodamage 6y ago
        The actual reason is the app does not follow the rules for in-app purchases. This hasn't really been in question. Anyone who has been an iOS dev for more than a year or two will be familiar with the App Store review guidelines. Are the rules overly restrictive? Yes. Due they place an unfair burden on third party developers? Probably. But let's not pretend they are a mystery.
- m463 6y ago
  You can purchase upgrades for your car via the tesla app.
MrStonedOne 6y ago
Its not a list of "exceptions". Part of the whole point is the relation to the quote at the start. In every one of those apps signing up "doesn't work" which goes against the stated goal of ensuring that users can download the app and expect it work. How can it work if you can't even sign into it because you can't sign up for it and they can't even tell you how to.
- nodamage 6y ago
  Except the app was not rejected for failing to meet the standards of the quote. It was rejected for failing to meet the App Store review guidelines. This whole website is a strawman built against the false claim that you're not allowed to require a login to access your app, which has never actually been true.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    He is arguing that the rule does not match the intent.
  - MrStonedOne 6y ago
    Except its not about rather or not the app was rejected It's about the policy creating the trend of apps that don't work in that you can't sign up on them.
    - nodamage 6y ago
      Except the policy doesn't create the trend. The Tesla app won't work if you don't own a Tesla. The Wells Fargo app won't work if you don't have a Wells Fargo account. These apps have external requirements by their very nature, the App Store policy does not change that.
      - MrStonedOne 6y ago
        Having a wells fargo bank account is not the same as having a wells fargo online user account. You get the first, then sign up on the website or android app. Try again.
wpm 6y ago
HEY is a digital content app too. Rich e-mails contain content, and are digital. Everything I look at on my smartphone is digital content.
- nodamage 6y ago
  Not by the definition given in section 3.1.3(a) of the App Store review guidelines.
  - rydre 6y ago
    Apple's trashy guidelines need to go to the dustbin of history.
realtalk_sp 6y ago
Wow it's almost like Apple designed their rules so that most of the key businesses in this world don't pay an insane 30% of their revenue to Apple. Almost like Apple say...doesn't want to discourage important institutions from providing services Apple's customers might expect from iOS. Crazy coincidence. /s
- nodamage 6y ago
  I mean, 1) why is anyone surprised by this? 2) If you make an app that sells cat videos you would also qualify for the digital content exemption, "key business" or not.
  - DangitBobby 6y ago
    What makes you think anyone is surprised? Do you think anger or frustration requires surprise?
    - nodamage 6y ago
      Why would anyone be angry or frustrated that "Apple designed their rules so most of the key businesses in this world don't pay an insane 30% of their revenue to Apple"?
      - oleics 6y ago
        Maybe because of the word "insane"?
        nodamage 6y ago
        Re-read the quote and note the word "don't" which flips the meaning of the entire sentence.
      - DangitBobby 6y ago
        Because the reality is that smaller players are getting fleeced in this scheme. By design. And bigger players don't have to play the same ball game. By design. Not surprising, just more of the same seen everywhere, and very frustrating.
reaperducer 6y ago
Releasing an app that does not follow the rules and then publicly complaining when it is inevitably rejected is starting to seem more like a guerrilla marketing tactic more than anything else. And be sure to do it right before WWDC. We've seen this play before.
thatMurcia99 6y ago
Why is Netflix different? Sending email is distribution of “digital content”. This old game of wobbly semantics to describe “organizing electrons in silicon” is pretty much done isn’t it? Society has hit an information entropy. Where the masses get one message “austerity” while the elites tirelessly bike shed the rules, struggling to maintain their old epistemology as they die off from natural causes, which is extinguishing their norms instead. Varoufakis is right: leadership of the old generation is out of net new ideas and has us nickle and diming old ones to keep up the ruse. Their only endgame, which isn’t driven by more than an intuition, is keep the hierarchy story looking like it did decades ago. This is just biological survival instinct. There’s absolutely no real reason to carve up “digital content” into more than electrons zipping through silicon, except for financial Machiavellianism.
- hejja 6y ago
  what a difficult comment to read

gruez 6y ago

>While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. Yeah, the first few items on the list were relatively convincing, but the convincing-ness takes a nosedive further down the list. I mean, who in their right mind would compare hey to a companion app for a car?

SpaceRaccoon 6y ago
It's not about that. It's about the VP's explanation being disingenuous. Apple's issue isn't that the app doesn't work, despite their claim. It's that they can't collect money. They should just be honest.
- nodamage 6y ago
  I agree that's a crappy explanation by the VP but that's not the actual reason for the rejection.
  - etse 6y ago
    I too think it’s a poor response from the head of the App Store but we shouldn’t pretend to think we know the “actual” reason that much better because we are given a link to the ever-changing App Store regulations webpage.
    - nodamage 6y ago
      The actual reason is the app does not follow the rules for in-app purchases. This hasn't really been in question. Anyone who has been an iOS dev for more than a year or two will be familiar with the App Store review guidelines. Are the rules overly restrictive? Yes. Due they place an unfair burden on third party developers? Probably. But let's not pretend they are a mystery.
m463 6y ago
You can purchase upgrades for your car via the tesla app.

MrStonedOne 6y ago

Its not a list of "exceptions". Part of the whole point is the relation to the quote at the start. In every one of those apps signing up "doesn't work" which goes against the stated goal of ensuring that users can download the app and expect it work. How can it work if you can't even sign into it because you can't sign up for it and they can't even tell you how to.

nodamage 6y ago
Except the app was not rejected for failing to meet the standards of the quote. It was rejected for failing to meet the App Store review guidelines. This whole website is a strawman built against the false claim that you're not allowed to require a login to access your app, which has never actually been true.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  He is arguing that the rule does not match the intent.
- MrStonedOne 6y ago
  Except its not about rather or not the app was rejected It's about the policy creating the trend of apps that don't work in that you can't sign up on them.
  - nodamage 6y ago
    Except the policy doesn't create the trend. The Tesla app won't work if you don't own a Tesla. The Wells Fargo app won't work if you don't have a Wells Fargo account. These apps have external requirements by their very nature, the App Store policy does not change that.
    - MrStonedOne 6y ago
      Having a wells fargo bank account is not the same as having a wells fargo online user account. You get the first, then sign up on the website or android app. Try again.

wpm 6y ago

HEY is a digital content app too. Rich e-mails contain content, and are digital. Everything I look at on my smartphone is digital content.

nodamage 6y ago
Not by the definition given in section 3.1.3(a) of the App Store review guidelines.
- rydre 6y ago
  Apple's trashy guidelines need to go to the dustbin of history.

realtalk_sp 6y ago

Wow it's almost like Apple designed their rules so that most of the key businesses in this world don't pay an insane 30% of their revenue to Apple. Almost like Apple say...doesn't want to discourage important institutions from providing services Apple's customers might expect from iOS. Crazy coincidence. /s

nodamage 6y ago
I mean, 1) why is anyone surprised by this? 2) If you make an app that sells cat videos you would also qualify for the digital content exemption, "key business" or not.
- DangitBobby 6y ago
  What makes you think anyone is surprised? Do you think anger or frustration requires surprise?
  - nodamage 6y ago
    Why would anyone be angry or frustrated that "Apple designed their rules so most of the key businesses in this world don't pay an insane 30% of their revenue to Apple"?
    - oleics 6y ago
      Maybe because of the word "insane"?
      - nodamage 6y ago
        Re-read the quote and note the word "don't" which flips the meaning of the entire sentence.
    - DangitBobby 6y ago
      Because the reality is that smaller players are getting fleeced in this scheme. By design. And bigger players don't have to play the same ball game. By design. Not surprising, just more of the same seen everywhere, and very frustrating.

reaperducer 6y ago

Releasing an app that does not follow the rules and then publicly complaining when it is inevitably rejected is starting to seem more like a guerrilla marketing tactic more than anything else. And be sure to do it right before WWDC. We've seen this play before.

thatMurcia99 6y ago

Why is Netflix different? Sending email is distribution of “digital content”. This old game of wobbly semantics to describe “organizing electrons in silicon” is pretty much done isn’t it? Society has hit an information entropy. Where the masses get one message “austerity” while the elites tirelessly bike shed the rules, struggling to maintain their old epistemology as they die off from natural causes, which is extinguishing their norms instead. Varoufakis is right: leadership of the old generation is out of net new ideas and has us nickle and diming old ones to keep up the ruse. Their only endgame, which isn’t driven by more than an intuition, is keep the hierarchy story looking like it did decades ago. This is just biological survival instinct. There’s absolutely no real reason to carve up “digital content” into more than electrons zipping through silicon, except for financial Machiavellianism.

hejja 6y ago
what a difficult comment to read