3 ms·

We haven’t gotten there as a society yet, but there should be a “don’t look for me if I’m lost/captured” checkbox somewhere. It’s my life. If I want to sail ar

We haven’t gotten there as a society yet, but there should be a “don’t look for me if I’m lost/captured” checkbox somewhere. It’s my life. If I want to sail around Africa and I’m held for ransom, leave me to it. If I want to hike a deadly trail, don’t come rescue me and then blame me for it. Because of the people who died looking for this bus, nobody else can now see it. As a traveler, I see this happening too often: I see a place, I do something, 5 years later you can’t anymore because someone hurt themselves. My idea is: put up a sign saying “5 people died here” and let new visitors figure it out for themselves.

Marsymars 6y ago
> My idea is: put up a sign saying “5 people died here” and let new visitors figure it out for themselves. Hanakapiai Beach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanakapiai_Beach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanakapiai_Beach
simias 6y ago
You say we haven't gotten there as a society yet and I say we haven't gotten there as individuals. I really don't think most people, and I definitely include myself in this, know themselves and the world well enough to make such a tremendous decision by themselves in the abstract. It's one thing to want an euthanasia if you're in pain and want it to stop, it's an other to say "just let me die if something goes wrong" when that possibility is a remote and abstract thing. Most of us have lived very sheltered lives. Most of us haven't felt what it's like to be really, really thirsty. Or really, really hungry. Or really, really cold. Or really, really tired. Or really, really lonely. Or really, really scared. Or all these things at the same time. I can definitely imagine many people would sign a "don't help me if I'm in danger" waiver out of principle or motivated by some romantic fantasy. Then they end up shitting themselves in a freezing hole in Alaska because they ate bad berries, and they're crying and regretting everything and would be willing to do anything to be out of this place. Suddenly the lofty ideals and the romantic movies start feeling really dumb and absurd. The principles don't matter anymore, the survival instinct kicked in a long time ago. Fortunately you have a satellite phone and you manage to call the rescue. "Sorry sir or madam, but you did sign a waiver. If you want help you'll have to pay the $300,000 standard search and rescue fee in advance. Thank you for choosing the Walt Disney Search and Rescue Services. Have a pleasant evening!".
- keeganpoppen 6y ago
  maybe the rangers should start taking deposits lol. "safety deposits" as insurance against future rescue. i say that sarcastically, but it actually doesn't seem like the worst idea ever.
  - badestrand 6y ago
    ...or just use taxes because it's a super low amount anyway and the payment structure is already in place
    - keeganpoppen 6y ago
      (i actually agree with this, it's just everyone else seemed to think it was an awful waste of government resources to fish a few people out of the wild a year, or whatever)
  - danenania 6y ago
    There are some popular multi-day trails in New Zealand that do this. You have to register months ahead of time to get a slot, and a rescue deposit is required.
- sebastialonso 6y ago
  I'd argue that any "lofty ideal and romantic notion" is by definition wrong, because it assumes a simplicity about the world that empirically, demonstrable does not exist.
keeganpoppen 6y ago
this is what they do at ski resorts, though only in an indirect way (putting up crosses for ski patrollers that have died there). i worry all the time about whether all the "fun skiing" in-bounds is going to be ultimately subject to a similar fate for similar reasons. so far that hasn't been the case, because i think most sufficiently dangerous skiing is so self-evidently dangerous that people mostly know what they're getting into, but it still feels like a tenuous compromise. ultimately, though, i agree with this. a sign saying "5 people died here" (maybe with w/e relevant contextual info) is the exact nature, and extent, of information that i think needs to be made clear to people.
- echlebek 6y ago
  At Revelstoke there is a particular part of the ski boundary that has signs like this. Something to the effect of "there is a cliff beyond these trees, and people have died here, go no further".

Marsymars 6y ago

> My idea is: put up a sign saying “5 people died here” and let new visitors figure it out for themselves. Hanakapiai Beach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanakapiai_Beach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanakapiai_Beach

simias 6y ago

You say we haven't gotten there as a society yet and I say we haven't gotten there as individuals. I really don't think most people, and I definitely include myself in this, know themselves and the world well enough to make such a tremendous decision by themselves in the abstract. It's one thing to want an euthanasia if you're in pain and want it to stop, it's an other to say "just let me die if something goes wrong" when that possibility is a remote and abstract thing. Most of us have lived very sheltered lives. Most of us haven't felt what it's like to be really, really thirsty. Or really, really hungry. Or really, really cold. Or really, really tired. Or really, really lonely. Or really, really scared. Or all these things at the same time. I can definitely imagine many people would sign a "don't help me if I'm in danger" waiver out of principle or motivated by some romantic fantasy. Then they end up shitting themselves in a freezing hole in Alaska because they ate bad berries, and they're crying and regretting everything and would be willing to do anything to be out of this place. Suddenly the lofty ideals and the romantic movies start feeling really dumb and absurd. The principles don't matter anymore, the survival instinct kicked in a long time ago. Fortunately you have a satellite phone and you manage to call the rescue. "Sorry sir or madam, but you did sign a waiver. If you want help you'll have to pay the $300,000 standard search and rescue fee in advance. Thank you for choosing the Walt Disney Search and Rescue Services. Have a pleasant evening!".

keeganpoppen 6y ago
maybe the rangers should start taking deposits lol. "safety deposits" as insurance against future rescue. i say that sarcastically, but it actually doesn't seem like the worst idea ever.
- badestrand 6y ago
  ...or just use taxes because it's a super low amount anyway and the payment structure is already in place
  - keeganpoppen 6y ago
    (i actually agree with this, it's just everyone else seemed to think it was an awful waste of government resources to fish a few people out of the wild a year, or whatever)
- danenania 6y ago
  There are some popular multi-day trails in New Zealand that do this. You have to register months ahead of time to get a slot, and a rescue deposit is required.
sebastialonso 6y ago
I'd argue that any "lofty ideal and romantic notion" is by definition wrong, because it assumes a simplicity about the world that empirically, demonstrable does not exist.

keeganpoppen 6y ago

this is what they do at ski resorts, though only in an indirect way (putting up crosses for ski patrollers that have died there). i worry all the time about whether all the "fun skiing" in-bounds is going to be ultimately subject to a similar fate for similar reasons. so far that hasn't been the case, because i think most sufficiently dangerous skiing is so self-evidently dangerous that people mostly know what they're getting into, but it still feels like a tenuous compromise. ultimately, though, i agree with this. a sign saying "5 people died here" (maybe with w/e relevant contextual info) is the exact nature, and extent, of information that i think needs to be made clear to people.

echlebek 6y ago
At Revelstoke there is a particular part of the ski boundary that has signs like this. Something to the effect of "there is a cliff beyond these trees, and people have died here, go no further".