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Serverside Rendering * https://laravel-livewire.com https://laravel-livewire.com * https://github.com/phoenixframework/phoenix_live_view https://github.com/ph

Serverside Rendering * https://laravel-livewire.com https://laravel-livewire.com * https://github.com/phoenixframework/phoenix_live_view https://github.com/phoenixframework/phoenix_live_view * https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor edit: added blazor

whycombagator 6y ago
Also Blazor[0] [0] https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor
- lol768 6y ago
  Blazor's WebAssembly variant is much more interesting and exciting in my opinion than the server-side model. Finally, a language for the frontend that's a joy to use. Still early days of course, but something I'll be watching closely.
  - mycall 6y ago
    I'm sure some hybrid will come, as I can see some features being wasm and some being server side, depending on use case (eg. ease of maintenance vs. offline support).
lykr0n 6y ago
I'm having flashbacks to 2013 where JS was used to enhance the experience, not build it.
- pdog 6y ago
  The golden age of web app development was 2012-2013. The state of the art in the browser was jQuery and ES5. CoffeeScript was mature and stable. The Express framework and Node.js 0.8 were perfect for server-side JavaScript. It was blazing fast, unopinionated, and minimal. It's too bad it didn't last.
  - freehunter 6y ago
    The reason it didn’t last is because of blog-driven development. How does Udemy make money if everyone is using Rails with CoffeeScript and JQuery? How does Medium drive new articles and new authors? They can’t. So new authors have to drive new trends, which their audience grabs onto and forces into the mainstream. Recently I had a discussion on here about React vs PHP. The conclusion seemed to be that PHP died for no reason and on second thought it’s more popular now than it’s ever been. That might be a mainstream opinion today but five years ago? How dare you speak against the React/Node hegemony. Hopefully people come around to the idea that newer is not always better and older tech is sometimes only considered outdated because the trendy blogs don’t talk about those languages/frameworks anymore. JavaScript everywhere isn’t the answer and server side languages/frameworks are often better. Phoenix LiveView might not win but it’s certainly going to define what the web looks like over the next few years.
    - cercatrova 6y ago
      Do you really believe there's some conspiracy between Udemy, Medium and the like to drive JS development such that they could get more engagement? It seems that's a reversal of cause and effect, people like to make new stuff which Udemy and Medium were then able to capitalize on, nothing more.
      - ptcampbell 6y ago
        I believe the author is theorising a phenomenon not a conspiracy.
      - freehunter 6y ago
        As ptcampbell stated, I do not believe there is any collusion. It's just natural... people will get tired of reading about the same thing and stop visiting your site. So you hype up something else and see a ton of new visitors. After a while people get tired of reading about that so you come up with something new to write about which drives more hits. Eventually a pattern becomes clear, you either need to constantly write about new things or your site will be forgotten. The changes are not being driven by any need for a new language or framework, just the hype cycle of technology. And when your business depends on that hype cycle, it is in your best interest to keep that spinning as fast as possible. No collusion or conspiracy needed.
sweethuman 6y ago
There's also JavaScript frameworks that have started adding more server side rendering. It's really interesting to see this switch back. But I think the performance benefit will be great.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Indeed, like Next.js, a React based server side rendering framework which can also produce static html for the pages that can be precompiled. https://nextjs.org/ https://nextjs.org/
phasetransition 6y ago
Phoenix LiveView?
elamje 6y ago
I use Blazor day to day. It’s really awesome. You are trading off ease of development for a potentially laggy UI connection, since each UI action re renders across the wire. I see it being used heavily for enterprises that know C#, don’t care to learn the latest JS framework, and just want to make a SPA quickly and cheaply. WASM or client side blazor is definitely interesting, though the client must download the whole .net core runtime when they visit your site. Open to any questions about Blazor! Big fan of Elixir, but haven’t used LiveView yet.
- mycall 6y ago
  What % do you see Blazor eating React's lunch?
- wenc 6y ago
  Blazor (client-side) is definitely interesting technology if it ever gets uptake. I can just imagine the performance of a desktop app on the browser (via WASM) without having to fiddle around with JS, front-end frameworks, event models etc. and just write software as if they were targeted towards the desktop. Software development would get easier again and it would be possible for more people to write desktop-class software for the browser. I'm thinking a lot of engineering/technical software that were previously not feasible on a browser could be rewritten for the browser.
based2 6y ago
https://tapestry.apache.org/ https://tapestry.apache.org/
dchuk 6y ago
https://docs.stimulusreflex.com/ https://docs.stimulusreflex.com/
Can_Not 6y ago
This isn't a JS framework, or even a framework, but I'm really liking crystal's type safety applied to .ecr simple html template files.

whycombagator 6y ago

Also Blazor[0] [0] https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor

lol768 6y ago
Blazor's WebAssembly variant is much more interesting and exciting in my opinion than the server-side model. Finally, a language for the frontend that's a joy to use. Still early days of course, but something I'll be watching closely.
- mycall 6y ago
  I'm sure some hybrid will come, as I can see some features being wasm and some being server side, depending on use case (eg. ease of maintenance vs. offline support).

lykr0n 6y ago

I'm having flashbacks to 2013 where JS was used to enhance the experience, not build it.

pdog 6y ago
The golden age of web app development was 2012-2013. The state of the art in the browser was jQuery and ES5. CoffeeScript was mature and stable. The Express framework and Node.js 0.8 were perfect for server-side JavaScript. It was blazing fast, unopinionated, and minimal. It's too bad it didn't last.
- freehunter 6y ago
  The reason it didn’t last is because of blog-driven development. How does Udemy make money if everyone is using Rails with CoffeeScript and JQuery? How does Medium drive new articles and new authors? They can’t. So new authors have to drive new trends, which their audience grabs onto and forces into the mainstream. Recently I had a discussion on here about React vs PHP. The conclusion seemed to be that PHP died for no reason and on second thought it’s more popular now than it’s ever been. That might be a mainstream opinion today but five years ago? How dare you speak against the React/Node hegemony. Hopefully people come around to the idea that newer is not always better and older tech is sometimes only considered outdated because the trendy blogs don’t talk about those languages/frameworks anymore. JavaScript everywhere isn’t the answer and server side languages/frameworks are often better. Phoenix LiveView might not win but it’s certainly going to define what the web looks like over the next few years.
  - cercatrova 6y ago
    Do you really believe there's some conspiracy between Udemy, Medium and the like to drive JS development such that they could get more engagement? It seems that's a reversal of cause and effect, people like to make new stuff which Udemy and Medium were then able to capitalize on, nothing more.
    - ptcampbell 6y ago
      I believe the author is theorising a phenomenon not a conspiracy.
    - freehunter 6y ago
      As ptcampbell stated, I do not believe there is any collusion. It's just natural... people will get tired of reading about the same thing and stop visiting your site. So you hype up something else and see a ton of new visitors. After a while people get tired of reading about that so you come up with something new to write about which drives more hits. Eventually a pattern becomes clear, you either need to constantly write about new things or your site will be forgotten. The changes are not being driven by any need for a new language or framework, just the hype cycle of technology. And when your business depends on that hype cycle, it is in your best interest to keep that spinning as fast as possible. No collusion or conspiracy needed.

sweethuman 6y ago

There's also JavaScript frameworks that have started adding more server side rendering. It's really interesting to see this switch back. But I think the performance benefit will be great.

chrisco255 6y ago
Indeed, like Next.js, a React based server side rendering framework which can also produce static html for the pages that can be precompiled. https://nextjs.org/ https://nextjs.org/

phasetransition 6y ago

Phoenix LiveView?

elamje 6y ago

I use Blazor day to day. It’s really awesome. You are trading off ease of development for a potentially laggy UI connection, since each UI action re renders across the wire. I see it being used heavily for enterprises that know C#, don’t care to learn the latest JS framework, and just want to make a SPA quickly and cheaply. WASM or client side blazor is definitely interesting, though the client must download the whole .net core runtime when they visit your site. Open to any questions about Blazor! Big fan of Elixir, but haven’t used LiveView yet.

mycall 6y ago
What % do you see Blazor eating React's lunch?
wenc 6y ago
Blazor (client-side) is definitely interesting technology if it ever gets uptake. I can just imagine the performance of a desktop app on the browser (via WASM) without having to fiddle around with JS, front-end frameworks, event models etc. and just write software as if they were targeted towards the desktop. Software development would get easier again and it would be possible for more people to write desktop-class software for the browser. I'm thinking a lot of engineering/technical software that were previously not feasible on a browser could be rewritten for the browser.

based2 6y ago

https://tapestry.apache.org/ https://tapestry.apache.org/

dchuk 6y ago

https://docs.stimulusreflex.com/ https://docs.stimulusreflex.com/

Can_Not 6y ago

This isn't a JS framework, or even a framework, but I'm really liking crystal's type safety applied to .ecr simple html template files.